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White Death
show user profile  jonnybravo_87
Ok bear with me people. I know i'ved got another project started in this section but i can't see that going anyware and i sat down and thought of a concept before starting work on it. So i'm basicaly gona model a scene where i'll ilustrate a great white sharks attack on a seal just a blink before the strike. I'm aiming for high detail and photorealism so it's gona take a wile. Here's the shark after about 1 hour of zbrush-ing
White Death

read 12893 times
12/2/2005 9:49:01 AM (last edit: 12/2/2005 9:49:01 AM)
show user profile  Mac
you got any refs`shape looks good, dont know about the mouth? looks more like a dolphin mouth and a wire on the the same view please, think I see something bad there

Best regards...Mr.Anderson!

read 12863 times
12/2/2005 10:52:02 AM (last edit: 12/2/2005 10:52:34 AM)
show user profile  jonnybravo_87
i don't know if this is good but here's a wire
As for refs i used mostly googled images and some pictures of this model on turbosquid
EDIT: it's not the exact same view i had to import the mesh in max and the perspective is kinda different from the one in zbrush White Death

read 12853 times
12/2/2005 11:23:14 AM (last edit: 12/2/2005 11:26:34 AM)
show user profile  Dave
If you look at the one on turbosquid, which is very very decent. You'll see the mouth is a lot larger, and can open up to a great degree, I think yours, at its current state would struggle with a yawn.

"I flew over Egypt once"

read 12845 times
12/2/2005 11:27:19 AM (last edit: 12/2/2005 11:27:19 AM)
show user profile  jonnybravo_87
i don't know at wich image you looked dave is it the first one because if you did you should know that that is the equivalent of the user view in max and the mouth seems a lot smaller in comparison with the rest of the body. You may be right although i made the mouth structure preety similar in size with the one in a side view of that turbosquid shark. Nevertheless you may be right i'm gonna check it out in max's perspective view

EDIT: here's a picture of a shark's mouth at ease Free Image Hosting at Anyway i think you're right. The bottom line at this moment is that it looks bad and i need to pull the sides of the mouth back a bit to make it look bigger. Thanks for pointing that out! White Death

read 12831 times
12/2/2005 11:35:44 AM (last edit: 12/2/2005 11:47:09 AM)
show user profile  timpa
Looking very bice, kind of lumpy though ;)

You need to capture the 15 million years of evolution as a killer.

Good luck and keep us posted.
You will need to watch some dvd's from discovery's shark week.
Its amazing what they do before the strike, the nose bends up, the jaws push forward and the eyes close a second before.
It puts the teeth out to perfectly bite and keeps nose and eyes out of danger.
Perfect killing machines.

read 12742 times
12/2/2005 6:44:12 PM (last edit: 12/2/2005 6:44:12 PM)
show user profile  jonnybravo_87
I'm glad you see what i'm trying to do Timpa :D. I hope i pull it off, i haven't made any attempts at photorealism up until now. I think that in the animal world that's a bit harder to achieve. Hope i don't mess it up, it's my favourite predator. White Death

read 12710 times
12/3/2005 2:19:52 AM (last edit: 12/3/2005 2:19:52 AM)
show user profile  unDragon
I love sharks :D

Why white death? They only kill to eat and survive, they rarely attack people and when they do it's because they confuse them with their meal: seals;

I hope you can finish it, I'd love to see some real 3D sharks :)

The corner of the mouth is to sharp. I don't think you should close the mouth, if you watch in a sharks mouth, you can see through the ghills sometimes.

Watch discovery, national geographic or animal planet, They show almost every day documentaries about sharks.

See you later Wally gator

read 12703 times
12/3/2005 3:41:57 AM (last edit: 12/3/2005 3:42:39 AM)
show user profile  timpa
Photorealism is easier to do for animals.

Like they said about the making of Jumanji.

People love how the animals look, and they say the rhinos look so real. Maybe they wouldnt look real to another rhino. It was easier because people arent entirely sure what a rhino looks like, they wont know if the ear shape is wrong or if the eyes are 2o degrees rotated.

Make it look plausible and 90% of people wont even notice :)

read 12698 times
12/3/2005 4:01:32 AM (last edit: 12/3/2005 4:01:32 AM)
show user profile  jonnybravo_87
unDragon: Thanks for the coments man i like them too, except maybe when ill be in the water with them:D
I never judged them, they do what they do but mostly that's deadly for 90% of the living things next to them. I have no problem with that except when a human is involved.
I will not close the mouth it will take away from the beauty of the image. Today my tv was permanently open on discovery while i was doing my homework in hope that a shark show will come up.
Timpa:yes now that you put it like that you're right. That's bringing me lot of confidence:D. Thanks

Here's an update. Not much. I'm already creating the atack position(mouth open and such) cause i'm not gona rig this, it's a model that im only gona use for this picture. I'ved spent a lot of time google-ing and watching all kinds of GW shark pictures and this is what i came up with
EDIT:don't mind the inside of the mouth i haven't worked on that yet. What do you guys think about the overal shape of the body and the moth.
EDIT2: should i open the mouth to a greater degree?here's a ref i used Free Image Hosting at White Death

read 12648 times
12/3/2005 11:53:54 AM (last edit: 12/3/2005 11:58:47 AM)
show user profile  timpa
snout needs to bend up and push the teeth forward a bit.

Look at the image a little closer, the 2 front edges of the teeth are the furthest forward point.

The purpose of this is to bite not sniff ;)

read 12590 times
12/3/2005 8:23:50 PM (last edit: 12/3/2005 8:23:50 PM)
show user profile  -=LeadMagnet=-
I think the nose looks too pointy, would nearly break off (not really but you know what i mean).
The proportions of the top jaw to the lower jaw seem off to me. The lower jaw is too large in comparison. Doesn't look very hydrodynamic, looks like that current mouth+jaw setup would create alot of drag for the shark.

As timpa said "You need to capture the 15 million years of evolution as a killer.". This is a finely honed (is that how you spell that? Too lazy to look it up) killing machine so it would be a very fast, efficient mover in the water.
Swimming has to be somewhat easy for a shark, one of the interesting things to remember about great whites is that they can never stop swimming, if they do they'll suffocate and die.
Some sharks can stop swimming and lie down on the seabed but not great whites.

*edit* I found a nice high-res reference image of a great white you could use

Do A Barrel Roll!!!

read 12589 times
12/3/2005 8:26:02 PM (last edit: 12/3/2005 8:28:59 PM)
show user profile  jonnybravo_87
Hey guys what's up.
Timpa:got it. I'm on it. :D
LeadMagnet: yup good point about the nose i'm going to take care of that since i need to bend it up too. About the jaws i don't know, i think that the upper jaw is too large at this moment not the other way around. As for drag what do you mean, is it that the head is to large? look at the ref i posted, that shark has a bigger head than mine does. Remember i'm not trying to create a shark in a relaxed shape, i'm trying to make him bite as hard as he can and for that the kaws need to open at a very big angle and by thet the head increases thus creating drag. I'm not sure if that's what you ment if i straied off sorry. My main ref for the bite scene is that under the picture i posted. Thanks for the picture, it shows off a lot of detail for the nose. I going to detail it once i got the shape right.
PS: i gotta start posting the perspective view. I'm gonna import the shark in max each time i want to create some shots. White Death

read 12555 times
12/4/2005 3:10:54 AM (last edit: 12/4/2005 3:10:54 AM)
show user profile  -=LeadMagnet=-
"As for drag what do you mean, is it that the head is to large?"
No, it's just that the shape of the head isn't right and it would cause alot of drag whenever the mouth is open. Notice the curve on the underside of the upper jaw that i've drawn on.
Your body of your model is shaped as though he is swimming with his mouth open and a great white wouldn't do that because it would slow it down. They only open their jaws just before an attack and they don't attack head-on either, they curve their entire body upwards while simultaneously opening their lower jaw and attack on a curved path upwards towards their target.
I think you should start off modelling the shark with a closed mouth to get a more accurate model and then open it afterwards. That way it'll look fine to have a straightened body like that.

Image hosted by
Take a look at what i've drawn onto your model, i think this is a more accurate shape for the head of the shark.
There's some more reference for you. Plenty of good quality videos and photographs.

Do A Barrel Roll!!!

read 12540 times
12/4/2005 4:57:59 AM (last edit: 12/4/2005 4:59:48 AM)
show user profile  jonnybravo_87
sorry LeadMagnet it's not that i don't apreciate your imput but i'ved already made up my mind to model it with the mouth open. It's very hard to alter the object in zbrush so i don't want to mess it up when i open the mouth
"Your body of your model is shaped as though he is swimming with his mouth open and a great white wouldn't do that because it would slow it down" - it's shaped like that because he is atacking man and when he is atacking he is swiming with the mouth open i wont make a picture of him just swiming i told you that.
Good point about that curve when he is atacking i listened to that as you can see.Thanks for the tip it definately looks better now
Now from this i want you to tell me any difference between the mouth structure of my model and that of the shark in the picture. I made the mouth open wider as you can see
White Death

read 12477 times
12/4/2005 2:53:11 PM (last edit: 12/4/2005 2:53:11 PM)
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