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stupid question
show user profile  stevey2shoes
Im trying to import a model into mudbox from MAX.
so far it has just a diffuse and bump map on it, its 1100 polys.
I only chose this model as a way to learn how to make a photo realistic human. this will need more than just diffuse and bump,surely.
Although i have no idea what it is, i think a normal map is my first step.
mudbox cant handle either this or importing a mesh from MAX,
MAX has no material channel for normal maps so i assume MAX hasn't the capability for creating normal maps. and every tutorial i see uses 3rd party software from websites that are since dead.
I would also at some point use this model to learn skin shaders, of which there are 3 or4 for some reason, but as im not a dermatologist i don't know the different layers of skin and as i cant take my skin off to weigh it, i cant assign it relevant weights, as it requests.
can anyone point me in ANY direction please, otherwise im getting nowhere.
read 715 times
2/15/2012 6:03:26 PM (last edit: 2/15/2012 6:03:26 PM)
show user profile  Joey Parker Jr.
If I'm not mistaken all your questions are answered in grotey's Life of a Sea Turtle tuts.
 photo 2012-sig_small3_zpsbd114b69.png

read 707 times
2/15/2012 6:12:14 PM (last edit: 2/15/2012 6:12:14 PM)
show user profile  K-tonne
'MAX has no material channel for normal maps so i assume MAX hasn't the capability for creating normal maps'
a normal map has to be put into a normal bump material (so in the bump slot you'd put a normal bump mat and in that you'd put the normal map)
in the bake to texture dialogue you can specify normal map- this assumes you have a high poly to bake off

'mudbox cant handle either this or importing a mesh from MAX'
you realise mubdox is designed to be an integral part of the pipeline that creates models for games, adverts, movies etc- so it has to be able to import and export models correctly and easily

'im not a dermatologist'
you're making a human and yet you're not god. you don't need to have training in skin theory- just look in the help files to see what does what, why, and how you can use that to make what you're doing look better
you don't need a human model to see what the controls do for sss:

Website and Portfolio

read 701 times
2/15/2012 6:25:17 PM (last edit: 2/15/2012 6:25:17 PM)
show user profile  Garp
>as i cant take my skin off to weigh it, i cant assign it relevant weights

You'll get nowhere without some personal sacrifice.
No need to take your entire skin off, a small bit suffices.
With a good scalpel, it's not that bad. Character artists do it all the time.

read 689 times
2/15/2012 6:54:23 PM (last edit: 2/15/2012 6:54:23 PM)
show user profile  stevey2shoes
joeyparkerjr- I've watched the turtle videos before. Its TOTALLY my fault but its not beginner enough for me, to that effect some of the "idiot proof" stuff is glossed over (with good reason). The trouble is, once ANY tutorial glosses over stuff, I get lost and feel as if these programs are deliberately geared to make clever people feel clever and stupid people feel stupid.

Ktonne- the difference between normal and bump maps has never been clear to me as any explanation says things like "it simulates how light interacts with the object", ?????????? well every map does that, if the light didn't react to the object, you wouldn't see it.
Does your method suggest that I cant have the bump map i have (black and white version of the diffuse) and a normal map to simulate extra detail?
I watched that skin shader video and all i got from it was that the weight is a multiplier. that bit makes sense. What he didn't explain was
why he wants the front of the object red and the back of the object orange. or....
how putting a light on an object makes it go black but if you put a picture of a bent room on it, the picture goes white, or....
how he wants GI but never goes looking for ANYTHING called GI, instead he finds final gather, but never explains what either are. If I wanted everything to be illuminated (ie global illumination) then Id put an omni light on. That illuminates in all directions, no?

I thought that mudbox was there to correlate with other programs, but it gives me messages like lines are close together or one line has 2 ends, (which I then start to see as excuses on MB'S part).

When I eventually sorted those out, and exported to MB, it crashed and took MAX with it, so then I think to myself "isn't mb supposed to be compatible with these other programs? how can everybody else be having sculpting competitions and my system crashes with low poly stuff?

Garp- I was going to say no comment but instead...... if im supposed to bake normals then what temperature do I set my oven?

OK I'm being flippant there but surely you can see my point, or could when you were at my stage. its just there's only so many times I can say to myself "switch this off and come back to it when you understand". One time ill switch off and not go back.
read 677 times
2/15/2012 8:13:00 PM (last edit: 2/15/2012 8:13:00 PM)
show user profile  mike_renouf
Part of the problem is that you seem to want it all on a plate without putting in the time to read up on terms that are in the help files.
Eg. Look up GI on any 3D help file or forum and you'll find that it means Global Illumination. Look up Global Illumination and you'll find that final gather is one method of simulating Global Illumination.

Sure this stuff is complicated and it does require more than point and click, but do a bit of homework. You'll stumble across all sorts of new tips and tricks when you do.

If you've got a specific question rather than a general rant you'll get more help and fewer lectures too.

read 661 times
2/15/2012 8:33:18 PM (last edit: 2/15/2012 8:33:18 PM)
show user profile  Garp
Ok, apologies for my post ;)

As you seem to be confused by several very basic concepts, my first advice would be for you to go through the tutorials that ship with the app. If you want to get the best out of them, you should not only follow their instructions, but also use the general reference as you go along. The idea is to not rush through them and move to the next step only when you fully understand the current one.

That being said, I'll try to clarify a few points.
Bump maps and normal maps (originally called normal bump maps) are in essence the same thing: they tell the rendered how to fake details on the surface where there are none. A bump map does it by giving the renderer for each pixel a number telling it the height of the faked geometry. On top of that, a normal map gives the renderer two other values corresponding to the direction the surface is facing at that point (the normal) in both U and V. This allows the renderer to compute a much more precise result.
Global Illumination and Final Gather are just different expressions that describe the same phenomenon: how a renderer simulates light rays bouncing off surfaces and reaching other surfaces. Think of a closed room with a single light source: the surfaces not directly lit by the light are not pitch black. GI and FG are used to say that the renderer deals with secondary rays (rays not directly coming from a light source but bounced off surfaces). Various renderers use various methods to simulate this.
So your remark about using an omni-light to have global illumination is wrong. An omni-light casting rays in all directions doesn't mean that they're going to reach every surfaces.

To conclude, my opinion is that you're stretching yourself to thin by going through a skin shader tutorial (possibly one of the most advanced shaders that exist) while lacking some understanding at the basic level.
Step back, go through the basics again, try not to leave to many gaps behind and you'll progress much faster.

read 651 times
2/15/2012 8:52:47 PM (last edit: 2/15/2012 8:56:51 PM)
show user profile  stevey2shoes
Point taken about not reading about terms, not that I don't try though,
I've tried to learn about normal maps a few times now, my searches come back with either intermediate level, or poorly taught or completely irrelevant tutorials, or sometimes all 3.
I've since found max's " how to" channel on YouTube (and have subscribed to
Ill hold back on the grumbling, but if I don't let it out once in a while here, Ill jack it all in, before I've got started, and i do really enjoy this WHEN IT WORKS.
In the meantime, while I look for tutorials on UV mapping and normal mapping, can anyone tell me why mudbox wont let me import to sculpt a high poly model, it just crashes.
read 644 times
2/15/2012 8:55:00 PM (last edit: 2/15/2012 8:55:00 PM)
show user profile  stevey2shoes
VERY VERY WELL PUT, (are you a teacher?)
That all made perfect sense, (whether I remember it tomorrow is another thing ;-) )
I can now differentiate between my grey bump map and a blue/pink one, and can finally lay that to rest.
That GI thing made sense as well, although I'm going to confuse that with ray tracing and ambient occlusion, still got lots to learn I don't deny that,
Gonna spend more time on tutorials but want to put them into practice too.
read 635 times
2/15/2012 9:24:52 PM (last edit: 2/15/2012 9:24:52 PM)
show user profile  mike_renouf
I do understand your frustrations - god knows I've been learning Max now for years and it still confuses the crap out of me at times. Asking a succinct question about one issue though will get you way more mileage out of this forum though.

Ray tracing is a computational rendering method in which light rays are simulated to produce an image (in a nutshell). Max has Raytracing and Scanline algorithms to calculate this kind of stuff. That's as far as my knowledge goes. With my interior renderings I've come to learn that Scanline slows down what I try to do so I've pretty much turned it off.

Ambient occlusion is a 'technique' used to fake Global Illumination, or to add detail to the simulation of it. Basically when you have bits of geometry that intersect or get close to eachother an AO shader will gradually shade those parts of the geometry. This simulates the shadows that you get when ambient light can't reach nooks and crannies in an object or scene. It allows quicker results than bouncing loads of photons or finalgather rays in a scene accurately but it is a fake solution.

What makes Max's terminology a bit misleading is that it has the techniques called Final Gather and Photon Mapping (which are techniques of generating the phenomenon called Global Illumination - which is essentially bounced light). But Max has labeled Photon Mapping as GI for some stupid reason.

That's my tinpot explanation - anyone more knowledgeable can feel free to rewrite (or flame).

read 628 times
2/15/2012 9:37:51 PM (last edit: 2/15/2012 9:37:51 PM)
show user profile  Joey Parker Jr.
"Chuck Norris doesn't read tutorials. He stares them down until he gets the information he wants."

 photo 2012-sig_small3_zpsbd114b69.png

read 622 times
2/15/2012 9:59:46 PM (last edit: 2/15/2012 9:59:46 PM)
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