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| Rigging Industrial Robot - Problems with IK and Linking |
 anakinnnn |
Hey everyone, I got some great help here before and wanted to try you guys again.
I have an industrial robot model that I need to rig for an animation and I have the linking down, but I am not all that familiar with IK solvers. I have used them in the past, but for more direct setups where the end affects the beginning.
This set up has a 7-axis setup, not to mention the support bar that needs to work in conjunction in the rear setup.
I have tried some constraints and linkages and still can't seem to get it quite right.
Can someone give me a general idea of what should be linked to what and how things can be constrained to work in conjunction with one another. Here's the two screenshots of the robot put together and the robot blown apart to get the idea of the pieces.
Any help is appreciated.
Thanks
Jason
Robot Put Together
Robot blown apart
read 1837 times
4/5/2007 9:43:17 AM (last edit: 4/5/2007 9:43:17 AM)
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| mrgrotey |
not completely sure of its actual movement but hows this?
Give me a few moments and ill post up how i did it because i didnt use any ik chains, not sure if you really wanted to use them or not.
[edit] oh and by the way the brown base bit isnt the fixed section in your image, its the next bit up with the hex bolt coming out of the side
read 1817 times
4/5/2007 11:23:58 AM (last edit: 4/5/2007 11:25:55 AM)
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| anakinnnn |
Man, that is pretty darn close to what I am looking for...
If you can kind of give me an idea of how that works, that would be great. I assume you used all linkings and constraints........which is fine by me.
I would however need to set up an IK chain that makes all of those linkages work properly based on just moving the end effector......meaning the very tip of it. I would like to basically use that rig, but just animate the very end of it because it is going to be very dynamic on where the end is going to be and how it will animate. Maybe you can elaborate on this link/constraint rig for that rear section as well as an IK chain on getting it to animate within reason.
Thanks a lot. I really appreciate it.
read 1804 times
4/5/2007 11:36:13 AM (last edit: 4/5/2007 11:36:13 AM)
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| mrgrotey |
heres a diagram of my linking setup
before i did this though i froze the rotation on everything (alt+rightclick-->freeze rotation) not sure how it helps but it does :)
ill havea go at the IK thing but its a bit more difficult i think
read 1801 times
4/5/2007 11:38:40 AM (last edit: 4/5/2007 11:38:40 AM)
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| anakinnnn |
So the green cube is a dummy object linked to the main beam on the top? And that way the look-at constraint always keeps the cylinder pointed in the right direction...am I following that?
Also, I have never heard of the freezing rotation bit, but I will give it a shot. Do you unfreeze afterwards?
One more thing.....I am not familiar with the "wired rotation" area there. I am trying to get far more into the linking/constraints/rigging/animation world and I have definitely done a lot, but still have never even tried or used some of those, so please excuse my ignorance on that.
Thanks for helping me out here. By the way, great website. Huge Futurama fan here too. VERY nice animation on the Bender Bending Rodriquez.
Thanks again.
read 1796 times
4/5/2007 11:48:08 AM (last edit: 4/5/2007 11:51:25 AM)
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| mrgrotey |
thats correct about the lookat constraint, wiring rotation means that whatever rotation one does it will do the same to the other, which in this case is what you want (and its that gets helped by freezing the rotation) you dont need to unfreeze just leave as is. it doesnt lock it in positio or anything , to be honest not sure what i really does, kinda clears the constraint on it and sorts something out sometimes. Ive got it working great with ik chains now and you can drag the end of the arm about now and everything works except i can rotate the base without everything messing up. hopefully get it done soon
[edit[] oh sorry to wire the rotation, select one object, right click-->wire parameters-->transform-->rotation-->keyframe-->y rotation-->click on second object and do the same order. once the window pops up select the main rotation heading above all the rotation axes in both windows (instead on just the y axis which will already be selected) then click on the double ended arrow in the middle and click connect at the bottom. this can be temperamental and took ages for me to understand it so have patience
read 1792 times
4/5/2007 11:58:32 AM (last edit: 4/5/2007 12:01:48 PM)
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| mrgrotey |
Woohoo did it :)
one sec and ill post up the new linking diagram
[edit] here ya go, this was fun :)
one thing i couldnt do thought was have the rotation of the base controlled by the arm, that had to be done independantly as no metter what i tried it creates a dependancy loop, ill try for a little longer but cant promise anything, hope this helps so far anyway :)
read 1785 times
4/5/2007 12:27:35 PM (last edit: 4/5/2007 12:46:38 PM)
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| Dave |
Grotey, could you not use the reaction manager for that? As in... when you move the arm... the base rotates on "X" by whatever amount?
read 1770 times
4/5/2007 12:43:02 PM (last edit: 4/5/2007 12:43:29 PM)
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| mrgrotey |
as far as i know (and im no genius with this stuff just like playing about) the reaction manager lets you set up sinners and sliders for keyed in parameters, not for realtime movement, thats what wire paramters are for, i could be wrong but i think wiring is the way to go but im just not quite there, ive tried creating a second dummy under the arm one, linking it to the arm but nor inheriting the z movement i.e. sit sticks to the ground ut follows the arm around, but then you cant use it as a lookat target for th base as it creates a dependacy loop, grrr bloody program :)
read 1759 times
4/5/2007 12:53:11 PM (last edit: 4/5/2007 12:53:22 PM)
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| Dave |
No no no, wire paramaters is for the spinners, reaction manager is for the realtime movement.
I think... I don't have max with me here, i'm 98% sure i'm right in thinking this though.
... you've confused me now!
read 1754 times
4/5/2007 12:55:00 PM (last edit: 4/5/2007 12:55:00 PM)
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| mrgrotey |
nah mate your backwards, anyway ive done it :)))))
i was trying to wire the postition of the arm dummy to the position of the new lower dummy but it kep feckin up but it works perfectly if you wire the IK's position to the lower new dummy.
if you need more help with this anakinn just yell but yell within an hour or two as i wont be around for a day or two after tonight
read 1751 times
4/5/2007 1:02:07 PM (last edit: 4/5/2007 1:02:07 PM)
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| anakinnnn |
Hey Mr Grotey.......
This has been a huge help, but I am still not getting it quite right on mine.........you probably think I am an idiot at this point, but I have one extra part that is kind of screwing everything up.
The support beam in the back is linked to a SEPARATE pivoting piece that is inside the main pivoting piece that the main upright beam is attached to......and that is really screwing up my whole animation......
Let me see if I can show you what I am talking about.
Also, I am having a tough time still with the IK rigging....I don't think you really got that set up anywhere....it looks like all you did was linking and no IK.
Did I miss that?
Thanks a lot.
read 1736 times
4/5/2007 1:47:18 PM (last edit: 4/5/2007 1:47:18 PM)
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| mrgrotey |
ive got all the birts right im sure, the IK chain goes from the big upright piece to the dummy on the end of the arm, (all must be linked properly for this beforehand)
heres a colour comparison
and heres the final rig
as you can see there is a dummy on the 'ground' that the base looks at and this is wired to copy the x and y co-ords of the arm dummy. If it copied the z axis co-ords you would find the base would tilt up and down asa it kept looking at it.
setup the pieces as in the previous post, then create a new dummy directly below the one on the end of the arm and also at the exac height of the pivot point of the swivelling base. add a looka at constraint from the base to the new dummy (it helps if you rotate the bases pivot point round so the axis id pointing to wards the dummy) then fiddle around with the axis button in the lookat modify option until the box sits the right way up as it most probably wont the first time.
then right click the ik chain at the end of the arm-->wire parameters->transform-->ik goal-->position-->x position-->click on new lower dummy-->transform-->position-->x position.
in the new window make sure the x axis is selected on both sides, click the right arrow in the middle and click 'connect' then click on the y axis in both halves, click the right arrow and conect. then exit the window
if all goes well then you should be able to move the IK chain crosshair and the arm willreach out as it should the lower dummy should copy the armdummy x and y co-ords and the base should swivel to look at it.
if you would prefer to use a control object rather than use the IK chain you cant just link the IK chain to another object after its set up, i tried i t and it loses the wired info. What you must do is link the IK chain to the control object BEFORE you wire it but then wire the control object instead.
the main problems i had with this setup were the lookat targets as they were acting quite eratically at times but try it a few time and you'll get there.
[edit] right im going out in 1hr so heres the max 7 file for you to take apart if it helps
http://www.divshare.com/download/342386-558
read 1724 times
4/5/2007 3:06:20 PM (last edit: 11/16/2007 10:05:33 AM)
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| anakinnnn |
Alright, I think I've got it..........this was a tough one. You are obviously far beyond me when it comes to automated animation like this........absolutely too cool.
However, if I can trouble you once more........It seems like everything is working and I got all of the constraints and wiring and links working, but for some reason, the part you have labled "E" is flipping around backwards when I move it around........pretty good. I think it has to do with the LookAt Constraint you were mentioning maybe you had some odd problems with........
I have tried changing a lot of the options on that lookat constraint and nothing seems to be working and I am not sure why your animation doesn't have that same problem. It only happens when I rotate the entire base.......and of course I do that using the wiring rig you recommended. But if I remember correctly, when I had it all linked earlier with the lookat constraint on that same part before we got the IK rig working, that same part "E" was also rotating kind of strange. Both the "B" part and "D" part are acting normally and the dummies are not rotating either, so I can't seem to figure out why that part on mine is having difficulty.
Any ideas? I have re-rigged the whole setup twice and had the same result.....
Thanks a lot.....and even if you can't help me with this last one, this was a HUGE learning experience for me. Thanks again.
Jason
read 1711 times
4/5/2007 3:42:33 PM (last edit: 4/5/2007 3:42:33 PM)
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| mrgrotey |
yeah i had that a ouple of times, i also had it where it would keep the same and not rotate with the rest but i just end up getting rid of the look at, or freezin the rotation on it again or unlinking and relinking and all that sort of stuff unitl it works again :) sorry i cant be completely sure on what makes it do it or what precisely fixes it, just one of those funny quirks that get sorted out in the end after sodding about :) hope you get it sorted, glad to help, I like helping people out like this as its a learnng curve for me too sometimes.
read 1708 times
4/5/2007 4:00:40 PM (last edit: 4/5/2007 4:00:40 PM)
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