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The repititve yet very important question - pricing for renderings
show user profile  GirishDJoshi
Been rendering for a long long time. And still I face this question a lot of time.

Somehow the breakdowns never worked for me, monthly cost + electricity cost + machine cost etc. could never get a amount which client agreed. After a lot of time I found a certain amount after which I won't be bargained. And that has really worked for me. I generally give a basic quote, ask for the plans and then give them a final quote.

But sometimes I receive emails which already have quotes from different companies and they have break ups in measurements (100 - 300 sqm3 for eg.) certain cost, etc. Some have break up like small bungalow, complex bungalow, 3 floor residence and more. But this is so vague don't you think.

I still get stuck when it to comes to package costing, like say 20 exteriors + 12 interiors + 5 360* views. How does one quote.

How do you guys in arch vis quote

What do you guys think, like to hear some feedback.


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read 638 times
1/27/2012 5:34:51 PM (last edit: 1/27/2012 5:38:05 PM)
show user profile  Jock
Mine is as simple as me estimating the number of hours it takes, multiplying by what I want as an hourly rate, then adding a little extra.

It is an estimate and sometimes it works out beneficial sometime i spend longer than estimated but all round it works well for me.
read 615 times
1/27/2012 6:54:22 PM (last edit: 1/27/2012 6:54:22 PM)
show user profile  Mr_Stabby
i also charge based on time spent on the project, personally my minimum fee is 1 weeks worth that generally includes all the invaluable hours i spend somewhat thinking about the project and around 10-20 hours of actual work @ €1k

read 611 times
1/27/2012 7:05:33 PM (last edit: 1/27/2012 7:05:33 PM)
show user profile  chillywilson
If someone has budget for rendering out to a farm i charge a 20% management fee on top of the farm cost. I charge low for in rendering because I don't have huge rendering capabilities in the office so I felt it was unfair to charge normal dcodb for just electric use and the fact it takes forever for me to render, on a side note I am saving for boxx renders, but if you got some great capabilities then day rate it.
read 589 times
1/28/2012 1:53:25 AM (last edit: 1/28/2012 1:53:25 AM)
show user profile  STRAT
Times are hard. Quoting is a nervous experience. I'm doing some jobs now for a fifth of the price I could charge 2-3 years ago for it. But money is money, whatever.





SJLEWORTHY.COM











read 583 times
1/28/2012 2:22:05 AM (last edit: 1/28/2012 2:22:05 AM)
show user profile  Bolteon
over here in LA, were lucky enough to have companies that do nothing but rent render nodes.


usually, we take how many we need; multiple by 3 and charge that amount.


$400 USD will get you a dual morestown xeon and 48gb of ram for a month. fucking hell of a deal. best of all, you send them your drive and they mirror it out to every machine for you. most importantly, if one goes down; you call them up and they'll bring you a replacement on the spot.

when they get here, you plug one power cord in and one Ethernet per set (usually 5 per rolling box) and they're live.


//edit


as an example...


if we need 50 nodes for a job; that's 20k in rental costs... we'll charge 60k. usually then we can send back some of the nodes half way through if we've over estimated the need and make some additional money back on those as well.

-Marko Mandaric



read 580 times
1/28/2012 3:24:57 AM (last edit: 1/28/2012 3:31:09 AM)
show user profile  GirishDJoshi
Thanks for your inputs.

Jock, Stabby, chilly -

Since I have began work, most of my clients are not willing to go with the hours way of charging. It could have been the way it works with Asians. And in India, it NEVER does. So it's always related to number of renderings and complexity of the modeling work. Sometimes the size of the render as well. Later on, the size of the render isn't such a bother.

Yeah if I have to take a render farm on hire I do add that price, but now days animation work is quite a bit less. Maybe just the cream layer gets it while other do pathetic quality and charge very minimal which I can't.

Bolts - You talking big numbers mate :) and big hardware. Of course more the rig, the more costs. Am sure with that kind of work, the clients also expects he has to shell out more.

Strat - Very true. It makes you feel a little odd when you look at the final amount. It could be exactly what one would have charged for 1-2 renderings. But as you said, money is money.

I am still to quote for the package cost for exts + ints + 360* views. Any thoughts on this.


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read 570 times
1/28/2012 4:34:04 AM (last edit: 1/28/2012 4:40:01 AM)
show user profile  nm8r
Girish - Find a niche market so you can get repeat business from clients who pay a consistent and predictable fee. Generally if you could slowly shift away from doing work for architectural firms, you'll be better off. Ironically, most architectural firms can't even begin to afford the rent in a building they've designed. They also generally will only pay after they get paid themselves and can screw up you company's cash flow. If they are going to a freelancer for work, that means they can't afford to have an in house renderer or have consistent work for in-house staff.
Interior or industrial design firms would have better budgets. If you can find a niche such as in the retail, corporate or hospitality interior design market, you won't have such a problem with pricing because they can charge their clients bigger fees.
I know this doesn't directly answer you question but I think the root of you problem also has to do with your clients. Again, especially in today's world economy, finding a niche is key.

Further reading -http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/01/05/want-a-job-go-to-college-and-dont-major-in-architecture/

read 565 times
1/28/2012 4:41:22 AM (last edit: 1/28/2012 4:41:22 AM)
show user profile  Jock
Girish,

What I mean is thats how I work the price myself, the client just gets a one off price, I just use hours to calculate it. Like you, most of my clients want a flat fee rather than hourly, but you still have to use your own rate to calculate.

Also, you cant really comment on a set of visuals like you mentioned without knowing the subject matter. The differences between the same package on two different projects could be days/weeks of work.
read 544 times
1/28/2012 8:45:51 AM (last edit: 1/28/2012 8:45:51 AM)
show user profile  Garp
I'm totally with Jock. Your hourly/daily rate is just a way for you to estimate a quote, based on your personal skills and speed as only you know them.
You client's concern should be only about price and deadline, not how many hours you're spending on the project.

If you give them more informations than they need, they'll want to have a say in it as if you were their employee.
Don't do it!




read 535 times
1/28/2012 9:55:58 AM (last edit: 1/28/2012 9:55:58 AM)
show user profile  GirishDJoshi
nm8r - Thanks for the note. I do agree with you quite a bit. Work is less for sure compared to earlier times. I keep looking and applying for what I can, it could be my marketing ideas don't click in comparison to the bigger studios who are in the running. But you have a good point there. Markets like India are still alive, you need to find the contact and break in. The quality I have seen from the bigger studio is so shit, am surprised how they ever end up approving such quality. Thanks for note.

Jock, Garp - I do agree with your point. But it could be the way I have been working since long. It's project wise and what the client is happy with in the end as you mentioned without falling below a certain point. Which is what counts.

So for eg. you get a bungalow rendering, how would you calculate. It's a typical case, like this following image, how would you go about it. Can you share the calculation with random numbers.

I never give them any extra information than they need. lol and I guess no one does.

Jock - They have sent me some reference image so I kind of know how the houses would be. But it's not certain that 1 house will have 1 ext, 1 int and 1 360* view. I have sent the quote, let's hope it works.

One more point I do keep thinking is, when in service type industry. How do we count something as profit. Say I charge a client 500$ it's been difficult for me to target a certain amount as profit. I know it might sound funny or weird. But I simply haven't been able to.


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read 530 times
1/28/2012 10:58:33 AM (last edit: 1/28/2012 11:01:43 AM)
show user profile  mike_renouf
I agree with the others - pick your annual salary bracket, divide by the number of days you want to work each year. Add pro rata sums for the annual software licences, hardware upgrades, travel expenses if necessary. Look at the outcome as an hourly rate.
Then work out how long you think the job will take you and multiply up. Look at the final sum and see if you think you're prepared to work for that/is the client prepared to pay that much?

You say some studios are producing inferior quality work - but maybe they still get the business? Perhaps you need to offer a lower-quality style of visual for a better price? It would take you less time thus you could charge less and be more certain of winning the work.

Quality is not ALWAYS the deciding factor. Give the client options for price vs quality.




read 514 times
1/28/2012 1:37:13 PM (last edit: 1/28/2012 1:37:13 PM)
show user profile  Mr_Stabby
if all else fails get an entrepreneuring fellow to do the negotiation for you :p im not particularily good at explaining why i want the amount of money that i want or haggling so most of my jobs come in though friends that offer my services for a 10% finders fee to them(they do stuff like web/ui design and programming themselves). Best decision i've made money wise since i used to be happy with 1/5th of what i charge now and i barely have to argue with anybody

read 511 times
1/28/2012 2:17:09 PM (last edit: 1/28/2012 2:17:09 PM)
show user profile  nm8r
There are some factors that are outside your control. Does you client have a cap on the amount of money they can spend? Are you competing with others to get the project? Does the competition have a bigger staff or better portfolio? Will the client potentially give you repeat business? What is the timeframe for the project?

When a client asks you to give a price there are three things that will affect whether they will choose you over another. The three things are price, speed and quality. A cliient will NEVER get good, fast and cheap bundled together. You will also be setting you client's expectations too high if you give them the idea that you can deliver all three. One of the three has to give. If I'm asked to give a proposal to a client who is expecting good, fast and cheap, I will refer them to another company. If you can find out what of the two the client expects then you can adjust you price accordingly and get almost every single project you send out a proposal for. Everyone understands the idea that you get what you pay for and many are willing to pay for quality work.
read 499 times
1/28/2012 5:25:45 PM (last edit: 1/29/2012 1:47:13 AM)
show user profile  GirishDJoshi
Mike - Thanks mate, I have been through that, but it's really not worked much for me.

I have been following those 2/3 options to the client. Always.

Thanks for all the input guys. As always, welcome.

As most of the topic in past, there is no fixed amount or a perfect ratio to charge an amount. But it has been really good hear from you all.


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read 488 times
1/28/2012 6:29:51 PM (last edit: 1/28/2012 6:32:10 PM)
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