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Poll
What do you think?
Good idea
2 votes
Bad idea
4 votes
Awesome!
0 votes
no clue
1 votes

 
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Multiple Client Based MMORPGs (online games)
show user profile  gogodr
I'm seriously thinking about working in this as my thesis.....

I mean there are lots of MMORPGs with crappy graphics Gameplay but High quality Graphics trailers.

thats because of the PC specs needed to play..

I'm thinking about making a system that sends same data but with different resolutions on everything

like Having a low specs client and a high specs client

any PC with a 2.4 Core 2 Duo, 2GB of RAM and 512MB Video card and at least 5GB of space would be enough to handle a high quality graphics MMORPG

that as min specs for the High specs Client
and then making the Low specs Client making it friendly for users like with single core, 1GB RAM, 128MB Video Card 1 GB space

that would be done by making models in low poly and resizing textures.


The thing would be just to make both Low specs and hi specs clients to send same data so low specs users can see user playing in the hi specs client but with the low graphics, and same for hi specs users.


Now the question is:

How would users take it? maybe they will feel kinda filtered and disgusted by it ? or they would take it like "Awesome"?

Hello there

beautiful ;3


read 733 times
8/20/2009 5:52:43 PM (last edit: 8/20/2009 5:52:43 PM)
show user profile  parkerfamily
good idea i guess, you only have to make a paper right, not actually do it? because trying to make an MMO is stupid.
read 724 times
8/20/2009 6:06:31 PM (last edit: 8/20/2009 6:06:31 PM)
show user profile  gogodr
no no, I'm actually doing it and going to present my company as thesis.
its ok I still have years to do it, I'm still gathering ppl in. plans to start organizing mid of the next year.

Hello there

beautiful ;3


read 722 times
8/20/2009 6:08:35 PM (last edit: 8/20/2009 6:08:35 PM)
show user profile  advance-software
It's called level of detail and is already standard practice. It's required to balance frame rate / visual quality.

> that would be done by making models in low poly and resizing textures.

You create several versions of each model, at different 'resolutions' (poly counts). You use low poly models on the low spec configuration & higher poly models on higher end systems. The higher poly models aren't used on the low end systems. Even the high end systems use the lower poly models (for rendering content at a distance, where you can't see the detail anyway).

You can drop the hi-res textures on low end systems, as you suggest - you need multiple versions anyway for mipmapping, but this is usually done by filtering/resizing the high res textures at run time, though sometimes mips are generated manually.

>because trying to make an MMO is stupid.
Not stupid, a hell of a lot of work.
read 698 times
8/21/2009 12:36:06 AM (last edit: 8/21/2009 1:09:53 AM)
show user profile  Poopsmith
LOD
Level of Detail.

People kind of already to do it.
Hopefully this didn't burst ur bubble.
3d 2d digital artist special effects poopsmith

read 672 times
8/21/2009 1:50:41 AM (last edit: 8/21/2009 1:50:41 AM)
show user profile  gogodr
yes but this is something I though because its a pain to have a too user friendly LoD
I would have to make models for multiple levels of details which results in Huge files,
instead of that I'm thinking about making Model(topology) LoD standard for each client, so users only control of the LoD would be with the textures, and rendering options like water reflection, particle systems, etc.

so this system I want to make is more of compacting the resources I'm going to use and only save the ones I'm really going to use.

thats why I though of making 2 clients. one for Low quality and other for Hi quality

so lets say you have a choice between downloading a 15GB client or a 5GB client depending of your machine and yet ppl with low specs PCs that downloads the 5GB clients will be able to play with the users playing the 15GB clients and same for the ones playing with the 15GBs clients.

Hello there

beautiful ;3


read 668 times
8/21/2009 1:58:10 AM (last edit: 8/21/2009 1:58:10 AM)
show user profile  advance-software
It's the same client, different art packs. If you have different clients, they'll probably get out of sync as they will be coded differently, unless the control logic is running on the server and the clients are dumb.

For online use, it's even better to just download the artwork when you need it, rather than install one giant pack when you install the client. A bit like how a 3D web browser works :-)

A good first move in reducing the texture download hit is to switch to jpeg-2000 as the image format.

In any case, get it working first - you're focusing on optimisation too early. It's good to have an understanding of the basics, but don't worry about that too much at the moment ... that's what coders are for ...

Another way of delivering efficient geometry is to use curved surfaces to model - this has a lower footprint than tri-meshes in many cases & can be tesselated differently on different spec hardware. This however, is no use at the very low end, because you won't do better than a highly skilled low poly modeller. Putting detail in normal maps & displacement maps is another way of selectively adding detail when the system's up to it. Different particle system setups is another. Shadows & advanced lighting effects can be used on high spec equipment ... you only need to download specular maps, for example, if that feature is enabled on the client.
read 664 times
8/21/2009 2:05:58 AM (last edit: 8/21/2009 2:19:55 AM)
show user profile  Setherial
No offense dude, as you are doing a thesis I'm sure you know more about MMORPGs then I do but what you say just doesn't sound logical to me.

Servers don't send graphics, nothing that requires a different resolution. Game servers send data updates like coordinates, pc/npc stats, etc... All the graphics are already on your machine and most games if not all ever since games started using 3d engines have customizable graphics settings. That means Resolution, shadows, AA, detail, texture size, etc...

If a game has crappy ingame graphics it's due to budget, if they can only hire low skilled people you'll get a poor looking game.

what's new here??
read 653 times
8/21/2009 2:23:01 AM (last edit: 8/21/2009 2:26:37 AM)
show user profile  advance-software
>Servers don't send graphics,

Check the log of your web server, Seth ... I think you'll find it sends the odd jpg or png from time to time.

On the 3D front, Second Life, which is in effect a MMORPG sends geometry/textures on demand.

There isn't much new here - gogodr is just getting his head around some stuff.
read 644 times
8/21/2009 2:28:15 AM (last edit: 8/21/2009 2:28:44 AM)
show user profile  gogodr
advance-software>>> yep it would be exactly that, same client with different art packs. since the data is what is important it can be shared universally and thats what I will try to do.
it would be like 2 clients ( client side programs ) with the same source code so they can share the same data.

Setherial>>first: this is a thesis project I'm just planning because I still have years for it. I'm starting in informatics science at my university. we have 2 years of general studies and I'm just in my way finishing the general studies.

I'm not talking about servers innovation but clients.
Making 2 clients for users to choose according to their computer specs, this clients will send the same type of data to the server and receive them but the client interpretation would be different by the graphics shown in game (( that's why the talking about the graphics and details ))
and that would be the new thing. and since I have the time before start really working in it is my poll. really because the first thing that came to my mind was that maybe people will take this by the wrong side, maybe feel less because of kinda being filtered by this or they would be pleased because the Server is giving users a better choice deppends of their own PC specs.


Hello there

beautiful ;3


read 639 times
8/21/2009 2:36:11 AM (last edit: 8/21/2009 2:36:11 AM)
show user profile  advance-software
I don't see anything new here. For a thesis, you usually have to introduce new thinking.

This has to be genuinuely new, not just new to you because you haven't heard of it before.

The idea is good, it's just not a new one.

read 628 times
8/21/2009 2:44:11 AM (last edit: 8/21/2009 2:45:03 AM)
show user profile  Setherial
>>Check the log of your web server, Seth ... I think you'll find it sends the odd jpg or png from time to time.

I'm a software engineer, I know how the web works, but we are not talking about the internet we're talking games. Second Life is an exception to the rule, and it clearly shows (=looks like crap). But again we are not talking about exceptions we are talking about MMORPG's in general. Go and be a smart ass somewhere else.
read 621 times
8/21/2009 3:14:09 AM (last edit: 8/21/2009 3:50:55 AM)
show user profile  Dave
"This has to be genuinuely new, not just new to you because you haven't heard of it before."

Quoted for truth.

I also think the idea is pretty weak, the real trick nowadays is getting high resolution textures to work on low end machines.

"I flew over Egypt once"

read 606 times
8/21/2009 4:06:32 AM (last edit: 8/21/2009 4:06:32 AM)
show user profile  advance-software
> we are not talking about the internet we're talking games

MMO games to be precide, which run over ... hmmm ... the Internet ?

There's next to no difference between generic browsers & games when it comes down to it. The key difference being, it's acceptable to see zone/page content loading in a browser. In a game, you usually wait for the level/zone to load completely before displaying anything. The fact SL does not look as visually exciting as it could in no way invalidates the load-on-demand methodology as being helpful in some circumstances, particuarly when there is a large data set of potentially loaded content, much of which you might never see. That load on demand is not widely used yet is not a reason to dismiss it as a bad idea.

Multiple end user art packs is a bad idea, because users are stupid. They'll download the wrong one & you'll get hit with tech support calls because their gfx aren't as good as Jimmy's down the road.

-------------------

Correct.

|
v
read 602 times
8/21/2009 4:14:40 AM (last edit: 8/21/2009 11:31:04 AM)
show user profile  Philbert
So my understanding is this.

a game like WOW or WAR could do what your thesis proposes by just creating 2 distributions of their games.

they just have a low poly/graphic distro and a high poly/graphic distro.

Instead of currently they have all quality files in one set.

Arguably the high quality set would still need all of the low quality data to use for in game LOD optimisation.


 Everybody`s Got Something To Hide Except Me And My Monkey

read 585 times
8/21/2009 5:34:08 AM (last edit: 8/21/2009 5:34:08 AM)
 
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