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Lipsync Animation - Crit please
show user profile  momin
ok, this is the very first time i have done lip sync animation. its only 3 seconds. it also took a surpringingly small amount of time (with the current rig i have set up). only about 45 mins. i will work on making it a bit more smooth tommorow, but let me know what you all think.

read 1278 times
4/28/2008 11:28:55 PM (last edit: 4/30/2008 7:55:04 PM)
show user profile  mrgrotey
Hmm, well its sync'd (althout the first half second or so is a bit suspect) but I thnk you're only getting about 20% of the movement in her mouth that you should be, very stiff, kinda like she's wearing a big latex mask and limiting her mouth movements. Also theres little or no movement in her eyes, they play a big part in getting your speech across.

read 1272 times
4/29/2008 2:51:20 AM (last edit: 4/29/2008 2:51:55 AM)
show user profile  momin
Thanks Mr G. yes, i agree about the stiffness. i have only 4 morph targets for mouth movment (plus the jaw which is skinned) so i tried sucking the most out of it as i could. like i said this is my very first syncing, so still learning. Going to add some more morph target faces for diffrent lips movements today, and make the eye movements to make it more belivable all round. also smile morph (which i dont have yet.)

read 1267 times
4/29/2008 3:36:20 AM (last edit: 4/29/2008 3:36:20 AM)
show user profile  donvella
phase 1 looks good.

remember 7% of communication is taken in verbally. :P

also 90% of people who use percentages are lying. (lols).

read 1262 times
4/29/2008 3:44:05 AM (last edit: 4/29/2008 3:44:52 AM)
show user profile  ulisei
hi momin -
why there is this global rotation? please let the cam stand still.
ilike to see your morphtargets too and i am very interested in your progress!

have a look at this:
but maybe you've seen this already

greetings, U.

read 1241 times
4/29/2008 7:19:46 AM (last edit: 4/29/2008 7:19:46 AM)
show user profile  momin
thanks donvella, im in the 10% who are not lying lol.

Ulisei - global rotation may not have been the best idea, but since this is only a test, i wanted to see how the whole face looked animated, when i have better mastered the art of syncing, then there will be no global rotation. i will post the morph targets later on tonight. im going to modify them a bit and do another animation first. Yes i have seen that before, its pretty good.

I think also, one thing i noticed due to Mr Groty, is that i misunderstood your crit this morning. i think more morph targets will not necesarily make things better. there is very little movement in her cheek (and looking in the mirror i discovered there is loads of movement in cheek when speaking), so, i will also modify my existing morph targets, as well as create a few new ones.

read 1216 times
4/29/2008 11:51:41 AM (last edit: 4/29/2008 11:54:49 AM)
show user profile  $$T-bone$$
i tried to reply last night but something funky was happening to the forum...but, now that i've gotten to it, everyone has already pointed these things out.
exagerrate those target a bit, add some more and yes, use a mirror and watch plenty of reference vids.
the main thing for me is that rotation with the cam or the head and it prevents us from focusing on the morphing.

read 1196 times
4/29/2008 4:12:35 PM (last edit: 4/29/2008 4:12:35 PM)
show user profile  Jollabollathan
You seem to have avoided the most common problem I've seen in first-time 3D lip syncs, that being the lips not meeting. This is great, but you can still do better in that respect. The "w" in "winner" needs more emphasis in particular, I feel. Also it's not really helped by the fact that it starts and ends in the middle of a word. :p But of course you'll do more and fix that. Everything else has already been said.

read 1180 times
4/29/2008 8:12:19 PM (last edit: 4/29/2008 8:13:10 PM)
show user profile  tuna
global rotation may not have been the best idea, but since this is only a test, i wanted to see how the whole face looked animated, when i have better mastered the art of syncing, then there will be no global rotation.

You never animate for global viewing, you always animate for the camera. I suggest getting rid of the rotation because it's pointless and makes seeing the lips very hard (not to mention on a god damn flash player).

Right now I'm only going to crit the words "who knows how to take them on" because they're the only ones I can see.

For the strongest sounding parts of those words, you want the mouth to hit the shape and stay there for a frame so it can be clearly read. You can get away with a lot of very simple movements with the mouth, as very rarely does a high frequency lip flapping ever work.

The strong sounding words in that sentence are, imo, "knows" "take" and "on", so get to those shapes a frame earlier and hold the shape for a frame (a moving hold, or usually an ease out - not a sudden stop).

Once you've hit "knows", the mouth will actually start shaping open towards "take" while the tongue and voice box will deal with "how to".

Then from "take" the mouth will simply move into a closed 'm', which you should also hold for a moment, as the "on" sound starts with the lips closed, then straight to a long 'o' shape (which you've done)

Another good aid for lip synching is the corners of the mouth, and their vertical (and horizontal) position. For instance the corners of the mouth will rise during "take them" then drop into "on".

The edge of the lips thing is important because people tend to watch the eyes, and only really notice the timing and general shape of the mouth - this is why high frequency mouth moving doesn't read, and why your global rotation with glassed over eyes isn't helping at all. Also it's a good idea to add a start and a finish.

Right now it starts IMMEDIATELY on "if", and ends on "gir", so these two words are completely unreadable and a waste of time. You need to have a beat or two before and after the content you want us to see, otherwise it doesn't read - for the exact same reason that we have anticipation and follow through.

[edit] oh i forgot to add, buy "stop staring" by jason osipa, it has some really good stuff to say on lip-sync and facial animation in general that will help anyone new to lip-syncing to no end.
read 1155 times
4/30/2008 4:45:27 AM (last edit: 4/30/2008 4:47:18 AM)
show user profile  mrgrotey
oh and next time you upload to yuotube can you change the videos option so it doesnt keep going to the feckin 'other videos you might like to see' list and the bottom, its friggin annoying when you want to see it over and over again and it keeps shrinking the video into a small square :) if you dont know how you click the 'embedding options' link by the video after uploading (or a name very similar)

read 1153 times
4/30/2008 4:50:52 AM (last edit: 4/30/2008 4:50:52 AM)
show user profile  killerbee2
add more morph target for the rest of the face besides the lips. A face is a very complex structure.

take a look at this for reference:

read 1152 times
4/30/2008 4:51:00 AM (last edit: 4/30/2008 4:51:00 AM)
show user profile  momin
Guys, i have not had time to update, but did a very minor update and took on some things you were mentioning (not all yet)

t-bone, yes, i think especially because this is cartonish, exageration is the key. im using a mirror a lot, it helps, as do refrences.

Jollabollathan - i have added a new morph target for the "W2, its a bit clearer, i was using the same moph (in the first version) for ooo sounds as for woo sound, they are seperate morphs now, may have to tweak it a bit still.

Tuna - ok, got rid of global roation. i will keep your comments in mind for test 3 which i intend to do much longer segment of this same speach. the words cutting off are annoying. the strange thing is, before i upload it to youtube, they are fine, you tube seems to cut off the split second before and at the end. i dont know why. anyhow, i realise that you always need leeway for these things and should have added second before and after or more. i have literally only used the same animation but changed the "w" morph, and modified the morph targets to more reflect the cheeks movement. When i do the longer speach, i need to correct a lot of things. Also that book you mentioned, i have orded it. Its for maya, but it still sounds very good for what I need.

MrGrotey, ok, fixed the replay issue. also added eye movements like you said...... but i think i have to get a balance.

Killerbee, yes, i still have to add a lot more morphs. this is truely very early stages, and no where near complete. thats a pretty awsome face test link. There used to be software as plugins for max that read normal webcam face movements and convered into lip syncing, i fogot what it was called. but i may look into that again and see if it is worth buying. so far however, i am enjoying manual syncing.

read 1122 times
4/30/2008 7:46:18 PM (last edit: 4/30/2008 7:46:49 PM)
show user profile  $$T-bone$$
the head is very "floaty".
you wanna hold those poses for a bit, for example:
"if you wanna winner" at the end of that sentence, hold that pose until she says, "take them on"....then change the posing of the head...keeping it fairly still inbetween.
Eyes are floaty too, need to have the eyes hit a target....stay still for a bit, then dart in another direction to hit another target and "hold".

read 1091 times
5/1/2008 2:38:43 PM (last edit: 5/1/2008 2:38:43 PM)
show user profile  $$T-bone$$
here...i sketched this out really quickly, but it'll give you a rough idea on what you're shootin' for. The red underlined words are meant to be the key stress points in the dialogue...(poses). Try to pause at these points til the next pose. (they're not perfect, just a starting point)
if i got the dialogue wrong in any part, i'm sorry cuz i just did this by memorization from what i remembered watching.

read 1077 times
5/1/2008 3:56:10 PM (last edit: 5/1/2008 3:59:35 PM)
show user profile  momin
hmm, yes, now i look at it again, her head is bopping too much, and not lifelike at all. Thanks for the sketch T Bone, that actually does help! i may not follow it exactly, but the principle of holding the head, and eyes, in a pose for a bit and then moving is one i will adopt.

Tuna - the book you recomended arrived today!! i went through it a bit, and its awesome. truely awsome book, thanks for recomending it.

read 1065 times
5/1/2008 4:34:57 PM (last edit: 5/1/2008 4:34:57 PM)
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