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I need your help! :( (movement crit)
show user profile  NLGFX_ger
Hey there,

Sorry to bother you but I am really stuck here. :( Customer says, the arm motion of the character looks too artificial. He says it looks like she has a prosthetic arm... eventhough I told them that keyframed animation within this budget will always look a bit unnatural, compared to motion captured animation...

However, they don't seem to be able to accept it how it is now... I don't really know where to start now :( I even shot myself doing 1:1 the same movement to see if I was missing anything but it doesnt look too different to that real movement I made there... or can you see what's causing the client to say that???

Maybe she lowers the arm too quickly, but thats the only approach I have right now. But I am afraid that if I make her lower her arm a bit slower that it won't help in the end. There has to be something more significant... HELL YES, its keyframed animation with a character model that is just OKAY, not really perfect to work with... but the client won't accept... also, I don't wanna end up with excuses... I want him to be confident with it!

So any ideas whats causing the impression of an prosthetic arm? I've made a short quicktime so you can scrub through it frame by frame... with the recording of myself I just made in the background...

Thanks a lot
http://www.nextlevelsimulations.com/transfer/arm_movement.mov

80 frames, 4,4 MB H264 Quicktime

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www.nextlevelsimulations.com
www.nextlevelgfx.de
skype: oli_at_home
read 840 times
6/3/2011 12:23:38 AM (last edit: 6/3/2011 12:26:26 AM)
show user profile  K-tonne
the fingers do look unrelaxed and stay in that position throughout
in comparison i see your hand is open at the beginning (hand by your side) and form the gesture on the move up- slight movements make a difference even if not directly noted- alway noted subconsiously
also your body makes compensating movements for the change in weight distribution- torso incline, head movement, hip turn etc
you could go on and on refining- just know where to draw the line and call it finished at some point

Website and Portfolio

read 823 times
6/3/2011 12:56:52 AM (last edit: 6/3/2011 12:56:52 AM)
show user profile  NLGFX_ger
hey thanks man! thats really useful feedback here... will work on it and see how it turns out in the end. deadline tomorrow :/ but now I've got some feedback to work with... thanks!
----------------------------------------
www.nextlevelsimulations.com
www.nextlevelgfx.de
skype: oli_at_home
read 820 times
6/3/2011 1:05:20 AM (last edit: 6/3/2011 1:05:20 AM)
show user profile  horizon
I think what bothers me most is there is distinct feel of a keyframe in the middle of the upward motion. Her hand first goes almost straight up and seems to change its mind there and continues away from the body.
You don't do that in the video, and it doesn't seem logical. Your mind thinks extend away from body, and your hand fluidly follows straight there, without an intermediary position


read 810 times
6/3/2011 1:48:43 AM (last edit: 6/3/2011 1:48:43 AM)
show user profile  LionDebt
My two cents - if you're still up and working on this and it gets read before the deadline - is as K-tonne pointed out. Extend the fingers as her hand reaches the apex of the arms movement, maybe so that her palm is more exposed. And then retract the fingers into a similar pose to how they began prior to moving, relaxed at her side. I also seem to think the arm 'falls' back into place too quickly. My eyes follow the hand as it moves, and it's the hand that does nothing, while the arm moves the hand - if that makes any sense :)

But other than those minor things - your client is nit-picking :p.
read 802 times
6/3/2011 2:20:22 AM (last edit: 6/3/2011 2:25:00 AM)
show user profile  NLGFX_ger
thanks for the feedback so far! It really helps...

based on that I've made a new try (body/torso shift due weight transition, finger movement, slower downward motion, etc.)... to you see any improvement? :/
http://www.nextlevelsimulations.com/transfer/arm_movement2.mov

deadline is about friday afternoon (central europe time) so I still have some time left... (oh well, need to render that shit as well lol)

Its really getting down to these dirty bits here... makes me a bit angry that they are SO picky on that, eventhough I told them that this is still going to have that arfitical touch due to its keyframe animation nature. But hey, they wanted it to look synthetic and artificial since it is a software company (thats why the animated character) - but still they keep picking around :/

----------------------------------------
www.nextlevelsimulations.com
www.nextlevelgfx.de
skype: oli_at_home
read 792 times
6/3/2011 2:56:52 AM (last edit: 6/3/2011 2:56:52 AM)
show user profile  LionDebt
Yeah looks a lot better - I can't find any fault with it other than her arm clips through the bottom hem of her top on the last movement.

Improving this any further (I would guess) is over-kill, since it's clear that your client didn't ask (and presumably - isn't paying) for super realism :)

Edit: maybe if you really want to tweak it a bit more, go for the eyelids / hair movement :)
read 781 times
6/3/2011 3:29:50 AM (last edit: 6/3/2011 3:31:08 AM)
show user profile  NLGFX_ger
yeah I guess... just sent it out for rendering (well, after I fixed the clipping arm ;) ).

Still I dont have a good feeling about this. How to explain the client that it looks unnatural (if he DOES still think it does?! I mean I can say it doesn't but his opinion is what counts in the end). So how to explain? :/

We'll see...
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www.nextlevelsimulations.com
www.nextlevelgfx.de
skype: oli_at_home
read 769 times
6/3/2011 4:10:50 AM (last edit: 6/3/2011 4:10:50 AM)
show user profile  LionDebt
That, I'm afraid, is beyond my knowledge :p... I can go as far as to crit what looks real or not since I have my own arms. I've never done a piece of work for a client, or even had a dialogue with a client. I would suppose you just point out that under the time and budget constraints given by the client, you did your best and they couldn't have expected any better. In a nice way though :)

Good luck xD
read 763 times
6/3/2011 4:32:28 AM (last edit: 6/3/2011 4:32:28 AM)
show user profile  NLGFX_ger
YEAAAHHH!!! APPROVED!! =)))

Will upload a complete edit with sound and everything (first 1:10mins of the entire film that had to be approved today) for you guys to see...

yeah, so happy now!!! Thanks again for your help! It really saved my ass... hehe.
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www.nextlevelsimulations.com
www.nextlevelgfx.de
skype: oli_at_home
read 744 times
6/3/2011 12:17:36 PM (last edit: 6/3/2011 12:17:36 PM)
show user profile  jareu
the biggest thing which stuck out to me was what K-tonne said before about the body moving. the arm looked fine to me, but the women have wider hips, meaning slightly more compensatory movemnt to support the weight and leverage of the arm moving out.



He who says it cannot be done is interrupting the man doing it.

read 734 times
6/3/2011 12:28:57 PM (last edit: 6/3/2011 12:28:57 PM)
show user profile  NLGFX_ger
conclusion:

5 days of work, approx. 8-10 hrs of sleep the entire week and lots of stress and sweating... and its not even over yet. These are these kinda jobs that every 3d guy loves!

People, learn something properly, don't work in 3D... LOL :D sometimes I wish I had a 9 to 5 office job ;)
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www.nextlevelsimulations.com
www.nextlevelgfx.de
skype: oli_at_home
read 731 times
6/3/2011 12:29:59 PM (last edit: 6/3/2011 12:35:31 PM)
show user profile  NLGFX_ger
jareu,

yes, obviously, that made the big difference! I didnt change the arm movement too much... it was more the body movement that went with it. Well, maybe it could be a bit more pronouced... but I don't care now since the customer likes it :)

----------------------------------------
www.nextlevelsimulations.com
www.nextlevelgfx.de
skype: oli_at_home
read 729 times
6/3/2011 12:31:33 PM (last edit: 6/3/2011 12:31:33 PM)
show user profile  jareu
for sure man, at the end of the day, if the client is happy, move on and make money on the next thing. Let me know if you get busy and need help with anything too :)



He who says it cannot be done is interrupting the man doing it.

read 713 times
6/3/2011 1:09:17 PM (last edit: 6/3/2011 1:09:17 PM)
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