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Game character
show user profile  Master_Soda
Working on this model now :


How many triangles can be in game model ?
in this one there are 4,550 tris.

read 553 times
8/3/2012 5:25:08 PM (last edit: 8/3/2012 5:26:11 PM)
show user profile  herfst1
GENERALLY THE LIMIT IS 4,549 TRI'S FOR ANY GAME MODEL, SO YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO OPTIMISE.





ACTUALLY, THERE'S NO OFFICIAL LIMIT. I THINK I READ THAT NATHAN DRAKE WAS 80K TRIANGLES THOUGH THAT SEEMS EXCESSIVE.
read 544 times
8/3/2012 6:00:11 PM (last edit: 8/3/2012 6:00:11 PM)
show user profile  LionDebt
IT DEPENDS ON THE GAME ENGINE. SO, FOR THE MOST PART, SIMPLY CREATING A "GAME CHARACTER" IS A MOOT POINT, SINCE YOUR GAME COULD BE FOR AN IPHONE OR FOR SOME NEXT LEVEL SUPER SHIT HOT ENGINE BEING RELEASED IN 2013.

AS A GENERAL RULE OF THUMB, DON'T USE EXCESSIVE POLYGOONS, OPTIMISE WHEREVER POSSIBLE, AND USE TEXTURE MAPS TO UP THE DETAIL LEVEL.
read 541 times
8/3/2012 6:04:29 PM (last edit: 8/3/2012 6:04:29 PM)
show user profile  Master_Soda
So if there's no limit whats the average number ?

read 528 times
8/3/2012 6:58:32 PM (last edit: 8/3/2012 6:59:22 PM)
show user profile  Dave
YOU'RE ASKING THE WRONG QUESTIONS.

POLYCOUNTS VARY WILDLY. THEY DEPEND ON A WIDE RANGE OF FACTORS YOU SEE, TARGET PLATFORM, SIZE ON SCREEN (VERY IMPORTANT), HOW MANY OBJECTS ARE RENDERED WITH IT, HOW OFTEN IT IS SEEN, HOW MUCH OF IT YOU ACTUALLY SEE (IE, ANGLES)

STOP ASKING FOR A NUMBER, THERE ISN'T ONE. NOT EVEN AN AVERAGE, JUST STOP IT.

"I flew over Egypt once"

read 524 times
8/3/2012 7:01:26 PM (last edit: 8/3/2012 7:01:26 PM)
show user profile  Master_Soda
The model as I mentioned above is a character so it will be probably seen quite often , iThe target platform is computer games (UDK).

now , I don't understand 4 things :
1 why can't there be a number?
2 How the screen size affect the model?
3 How can I know how many other objects will be rendered with it ?
4 WHY ARE YOU PEOPLE WRITE EVERYTHING IN CAPITAL LETTERS ?

read 507 times
8/3/2012 8:36:34 PM (last edit: 8/3/2012 8:36:34 PM)
show user profile  advance-software
1. BECAUSE IT DEPENDS WHAT ELSE TEH COMPUTER HAZ 2 DO. YOU'RE AIMING 4 60 FRAMES PER SECOND FOR FLUID MOVEMENT.

2. THE HIGHER THE RESOLUTION THE MORE PIXELS NEED DRAWING. EVERY GRAPHICS CARD HAS A FILL RATE WHICH IS HOW FAST IT CAN DRAW PIXELS. BIGGER TRIANGLES=LONGER 2 DRAW.

3. A TYPICAL GAME PROBLEM IF EVERYTHING ISN'T FULLY SPEC'D AS IS OFTEN THE CASE. KEEP AS LOW AS POSSIBLE THEN U HAVE ENOUGH HEADROOM WHEN OTHER STUFF NEEDS ADDING. U CAN RAMP UP 4 MORE DETAIL WHEN YOU'RE NEARLY DONE IF YOU HAVE CAPACITY 2 SPARE.

4. ASK MANNY.

> So if there's no limit whats the average number ?

FOR WHAT GAME ENGINE, FOR WHAT SPEC HARDWARE, WITH WHAT ELSE GOING ON ?
LIKE DAVE SAID.


read 504 times
8/3/2012 8:40:51 PM (last edit: 8/3/2012 8:43:34 PM)
show user profile  Master_Soda
Can I some how make the a game engine to use the same part of the model, in the model it self to conserve triangles ?

read 482 times
8/3/2012 10:07:53 PM (last edit: 8/3/2012 10:07:53 PM)
show user profile  LionDebt
Apart from that making absolutely no sense whatsoever. Sure, why the hell not.
read 477 times
8/3/2012 10:34:47 PM (last edit: 8/3/2012 10:34:47 PM)
show user profile  horizon
IS FRIDAY DONE ALREADY? I'M GETTING TIRED OF YELLING AND READING YELLING ALL DAY.

I AGREE WITH DAVE ON LOW POLY ESTIMATES. CAN'T BE DONE, TOO VAGUE. THERE'S ALSO NO SUCH THING AS MID POLY, WHATEVER PEOPLE MAY TELL YOU. IT'S JUST A LAZY COMBINATION BETWEEN LOW POLY AND HIGH POLY, WHICHEVER IS EASIER FOR THEM TO MAKE FOR CERTAIN PART.

AS FOR YOUR MODEL, DOESN'T LOOK LIKE A 5K POLY MODEL. YOU SURE YOU DON'T HAVE SOMETHING DOUBLED?
AND THE CYLINDERS FOR HIS ARMS AND LOWER TORSO (PELVIS?) HAVE TOO MANY HEIGHT SEGMENTS THAT HAVE NO PURPOSE. REMOVE THEM ALL IF THE PARTS DON'T BEND, AND IF THEY DO KEEP ONLY THOSE THAT ARE USED IN THE BEND


read 468 times
8/3/2012 11:00:27 PM (last edit: 8/3/2012 11:00:27 PM)
show user profile  Dave
I think he's asking if the engine can do the mirroring/instancing on parts of the object that are the same to essentially lesson the tri count.

The short answer is no.

You can duplicate/mirror objects in some game engines, but it still has to render that duplication, so you wouldn't be saving any triangles.

I'm sure there are guides out there for low poly game art... but the general rule is to "use as much as you want, but as little as you need". It can often be an incredibly technical task if you're aiming for peak-performance with a butt load of content. Good engines can often alleviate certain pressures from the artist, like optimising bones in animation or generating lower res content for objects "further away" but an artist should certainly never rely on these things.

Anywho, on to that question list:

1) - It's just a really loaded question. Super vague and contains too many variables. You can look up statistics for consoles but even those don't take the entire pipeline into account. As an example, let's just say "Generic Console" can hold Xk tri's on screen, that number goes down when you start to include textures, shaders, animations, sounds. It's a very fiddly topic.

2) - AS's explanation of fill rate is one example, but from another perspective it also has a lot to do with your level of detail. For example, let's say you have two spheres on screen. One sphere is a lot larger than the other (think: planets)... and the camera is fixed, so the user cannot zoom. It makes no sense for the smaller planet to contain the same level of detail. See example, notice the images on the left look identical, but on the right it's clear that the wireframe of the smaller "planet" is a lot more optimised, with no loss on quality.


Basically... the silhouette of objects is of the utmost importance.

3) - You can get a rough idea of how much other stuff is on screen by just thinking about the type of game you'd be modelling for. For example, if your robot character was a "foot soldier" in an RTS, then you'd expect possibly hundreds of these things on screen, + buildings + general terrain +other characters. It's pretty irrelevant for just knockin' out a low poly character on its own, so don't worry about this at all, it's just to help you understand why someone can't simply answer "how many triangles can be in a game model"

I hope some of this helps.

"I flew over Egypt once"

read 465 times
8/3/2012 11:07:51 PM (last edit: 8/3/2012 11:13:47 PM)
show user profile  LionDebt
You mention you're going to use this asset in the UDK.

What is the 'game'? 3rd Person RPG? 1st Person Shooter? Some kind of RTS? Perhaps a 1st/3rd person hybrid?

In any event, you need to devote a lot of thought / planning into a 'sensible' content budget. Polygon counts are only ONE aspect of the budget. Shader complexities, fill-rates, lighting complexity, scene complexity, particle systems, level of details, camera positioning, viewing distances, target audience hardware etc etc etc are all equally if not more important, factors to consider.

If you are just creating a 'game asset'. Then, make up a brief. Pretend you have a client who is creating a pretend game and you are given a budget of 1200, or 2400, or 8000, or whatever... with 4x512 texture maps... That's that done. Build the model within the budget and make it look awesome - et voilá you have a portfolio piece.

If you are creating a 'game'. Then, read my first paragraph and get learning the UDK toolkit and asset pipelines.
read 458 times
8/3/2012 11:17:54 PM (last edit: 8/4/2012 2:21:32 AM)
show user profile  Master_Soda
The reason I am asking this sort of questions is because I want to understand how this stuff works , I am not creating any games right now and the model is even not rigged, also I know characters and objects aren't the only thing matter in a game .
I thought it be nice to have a number, an average standard to compare my results to , but it isn't exists it's even easier for me that way, when I'M not even actually going to use this models any time soon.
by the way thanks for your answers, alot smarter now.

read 426 times
8/4/2012 10:30:57 AM (last edit: 8/4/2012 10:30:57 AM)
show user profile  Master_Soda
By the way , what renderer is better to use to bake normals ?

read 424 times
8/4/2012 10:33:00 AM (last edit: 8/4/2012 10:33:00 AM)
show user profile  LionDebt
If you are baking your normals within 3DS Max using the Render to Texture (RTT) functions, you want the Scanline renderer for baking normals.
read 413 times
8/4/2012 3:06:22 PM (last edit: 8/4/2012 3:06:22 PM)
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