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flickering animation car dirtpath (link animation)
show user profile  Scheidema
Hi, im working on this car project.
I really need some help with the render settings
In the link you can find a test render what shows the problems

I'm using vray for the first time.
I checked out allot of the things on internet. Just any animation is diffrent i guess.

Problem is very much the flickering in the entire scene.
To be honest I really don't know what causses this flickering.
The white pixels in front of the car is created by the headlights.
All seems to flicker really bad tree ect.
I used prepass for Irradiance map with a Interp frames 3
Tried using light cache single frame map from file.
Used brute force. didn't change a thing about the flickering.
all in different renderings btw.

rendering time 480x270 takes about 30 min. per frame.
much time on lost on displacement maps. i can't work arround that.
that doesn't mean i can set it off for testrendering :)

below are the settings of the renders.

I used in render setup
--use 3ds max Photometric scale on

Vray Image sampler Antialising
--image sampler Adaptive DMC
--Antialiasing filter
-on Area size 1,7

--V-Ray Adaptive DMC image sampler
-min subdivs 1 max subdivs 4
-Clr tresh 0,001
-Use DMC sampler thresh off

--Color mapping
-linear multyply
-Dark 0,5
-Bright 1,3
-gamma 1,0
-all checkboxes checked exept linear workflow
-Calmp level 1,0

Indirect Illumination GI
-checkbox on
-Refractive on
-saturation 1
-contrast 1
-contrast base 0,5

--Ambient occlusion off

--Primary bounces
-Multiplier 1 GI engine Irradiance map
--Secondary bounces
Multiplier 1 GI engine light cache

--Vray Irradiance map
--Built in presents medium animation
-HSPH 50
-Interp. 20
-Use camera path on

--Detail enhancement checkbox off

--Advanced options
-Interpolation Least squares fit
-Sample Lookup Density-based
-Multipass and Randomize samples checkboxes on

Vray Light cache.
--Calculation parameters

-Subdivs 2200
-Sample size 0,02
-scale : screen
-Number of passes 8

-all checkboxes on except adaptive tracing

--Reconstruction parameters
-all off
-Filter Nearest
-interp. samples 10


--Vray DMC sampler

-adaptive amount 0,85
-Noise threshold 0,001
-time independent off
-min samples 6
-Globel Subdivs multiplier 1,0

--Deafault displacement
-override max's (standaard settings)

--Vray System
--Raycaster params
-Max. tree depth 80
-min leaf size 0,0
-face level coef 1,0
-dynamic memory limit 13000
-default geometry : static
-render region 32

End of list

Kind regards

read 752 times
8/27/2015 12:15:52 AM (last edit: 8/27/2015 12:15:52 AM)
show user profile  digs
dem samples.

i really don't know exactly what the problem is - to me that looks like an issue caused specifically by a low light sample count (the samples within your lights), but it could be due to fg being calculated incorrectly

I just wanted to say dem samples. someone will surely have a better solution ; )
read 743 times
8/27/2015 12:38:18 AM (last edit: 8/27/2015 12:57:37 AM)
show user profile  Coxy
Looks like it's something to do with your trees and they are reflecting in the mud.

Have no idea what your material samples are, but 1/4 is usually way to low for a colour threshold of 0.001. Unless your samples are really high, or you have divide un-ticked and are multiplying the samples by a lot, it's always going to end up firing those 16 eye rays with that threshold and then get cut off whilst there is going to be a big chunk of secondary rays shot for each primary ray when noise can often be from the primary eye ray, or AA, not necessarily just the secondary sampler.

I would try dropping the colour threshold to 0.01 to test it and try and get a rough idea what the samplers are doing in your scene, but increase your sampler to something like 1/16 to give the primary sampler some space to work with. Enable VraySamplerElement so you can see wtf is going on, otherwise you are completely blind.

I'd personally use Brute Force/Light Cache for this as it has moving parts and a softer AA filter (I often use Quadratic). You will always get a little noise, especially in the shadows of highly reflective materials with a high BRDF (like a Metal), but there is a diminishing return point where you can just do some noise removal in post vs increasing render times to a point most people feel uncomfortable with. But that point is relative to you and your hardware..

Keep in mind with Brute Force that the GI noise and some of the lighting is in the primary sampler and not the secondary one.

It looks like your trees are screwing up your scene and reflecting in the mud, so I would look at those, maybe it's the low AA, maybe it's your shader, maybe you need to look at how the bitmap is being filtered for the opacity. You have some very fine geometry in there it is trying to antialias in the leaves etc and you aren't giving the renderer much to work with in that regard with only 4 subdivisions.

But as said above. I would stick on the VraySamplerElement so you can at least listen to what Vray is telling you. Add in the other passes too, reflection, lighting, GI etc. So you can get an idea of where your noise is coming from. Break everything down, make it easier on yourself and increase settings relative to what feedback you are getting from the VraySampler. Otherwise we are all just guessing.
read 723 times
8/27/2015 1:38:52 AM (last edit: 8/27/2015 4:27:02 AM)
show user profile  Scheidema
Hi Thanks, im working on it right now.

I excluded the trees and it went less flickering indeed.
still there is allot of flickering left on the car mud and grass. even when I put sample min/max 1/6 but that is already better than 1/4

Third render is with the quadratic filter and put down the Clr tresh to 0,01
changed setting in materials gras mud.
changed the subdivs from 8 to 16 for both reflect and refract
reflect and refract interpolation min rate -3 max rate -1 like medium irradiance map settings. Is this right??
in render elements i put down allot of things. Im not experienced in this section and i dont know what to look for. (I couldn't find the VraySamplerElement) this gave me allot of black images

Fourth test
is with the brute force and light cache on turned out all the displacement maps.
i see allot of flickering comming from the carpaint. maybe this is something.
even without that it is stil flickering in the background to.

know am i wondering... could it be the radius from the sunlight?? photon emit radius is on 500 mm

someone has other solutions

read 672 times
8/27/2015 10:02:30 PM (last edit: 8/27/2015 10:02:30 PM)
show user profile  Error404
Have you tried adjusting the Maximum ray intensity? Looks like that should solve it. (Vray 3.0 or higher, don't think this option was in 2.x) -

read 667 times
8/27/2015 10:19:09 PM (last edit: 8/27/2015 10:19:09 PM)
show user profile  Scheidema
I use 2.10.01 from a friend of mine, im looking at raytracing secondary rays bias 0.0 now. Ill set this to 0,001 also changed the photon radius sun from 500 to 5000

read 664 times
8/27/2015 10:29:22 PM (last edit: 8/27/2015 10:29:22 PM)
show user profile  Scheidema
oke it took me a while, im put adaptive amount from 0,85 to 0,4. this seems to change things.
Ill keep testing this till I think its good. If there are other thing I dhould try or do keep...

thanks for the support

read 645 times
8/27/2015 11:09:58 PM (last edit: 8/27/2015 11:09:58 PM)
show user profile  Coxy

Take a look at the link above, it should help you with at least the diagnosis side.

I mean it's great you are having better renders, but right now you just told Vray to not be as adaptive (which is it's strength), so you are kind of just smashing the problem with a hammer (and not really gaining any insight into where the problem is), rather than working out where the sampler is struggling and solving it directly.
read 627 times
8/28/2015 2:33:37 AM (last edit: 8/28/2015 2:34:54 AM)
show user profile  Scheidema
Hi Coxy, yes you are right in that. Ill read it. problem is just that I put everything out the scene and only having the car and the ground plane still it flickers.
maybe its something else IDK
everything set on high like 2/24 and and other things. ?!>!# it should just produce good images.

read 618 times
8/28/2015 7:10:50 AM (last edit: 8/28/2015 7:10:50 AM)
show user profile  Scheidema
Hi, I have tested the samples and most is blue.
can some one see somthing what im not seeing here?

read 605 times
8/28/2015 5:46:27 PM (last edit: 8/28/2015 5:50:47 PM)
show user profile  Coxy
"it should just produce good images."

In a perfect world it would, but Vray isn't linear and there are so many variables you need to diagnose the problems directly to solve them, especially when dealing with animations. You can stick the universal settings on 1/100 and just blast away, but you still won't be left with a greater knowledge of what is going on.

Do you have any materials interpolated? Render the whole scene with a flat grey material and see if it still gives you problems. If it doesn't then it's most likely something to do with your materials rather than your lighting.
read 591 times
8/28/2015 7:03:07 PM (last edit: 8/28/2015 7:11:58 PM)
show user profile  Scheidema
Yes I know what you mean. I read the article a couple of times.
I renderd some things out. Its working better now.
I pumped it up to extreme, and now im fine tunning it bit by bit.
Ill try to make the renders 1280x720 round 1 hour (if possible).
atleast I know more about the values and connections in Vray.

I got one question about the LOCAL SUBDIVISIONS (FROM A LIGHT / GI / MATERIAL / ETC)
G. Subdivisions.

He is talking about the Brute force subdivs here right?
what about light cache settings, just keep them default?
(sorry if Im asking a dumb question now)

I did look at interpolated, also googled it and it causes flickering so that is off. I think its standard unchecked.

didn't checkedout the trees yet. I believe it is with filter off in materials. it shows needles in hard shadows other wise i goth planes from the cuttoff. If I was Correct.

for the website and info

read 585 times
8/28/2015 9:55:19 PM (last edit: 8/28/2015 9:55:19 PM)
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