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An example of what's wrong with our industry...
show user profile  Bolteon
So, for funsies; I replied to an arch viz posting to see just how much was to be expected for an X amount of money.

This is what came back:

- Two sets of unit interiors (about 6 images each, including living area, bedroom, and bathroom)
- 3 sets of lobby & common area images
- 3 fly through videos of 3 units

So, they want 12 images from the first line, at least 6 images from the second, and 3 videos of 3 different scenes.

Total budget price for this massive amount of work? $5,000 USD

If you're the type of person that sees this as a good opportunity, you can count yourself among the "problems" group.

-Marko Mandaric

read 655 times
9/11/2015 7:22:38 PM (last edit: 9/11/2015 7:22:38 PM)
show user profile  ScotlandDave
Problem is there'll be a whole run of idiots clambering to get the job..

Website | Blog | Contact | Vimeo

read 642 times
9/11/2015 7:48:35 PM (last edit: 9/11/2015 7:48:35 PM)
show user profile  nm8r
They want that much work because their in-house Lumion guy was on vacation through Labor Day.
Seriously though, this "problem" isn't exclusive to our industry.
read 638 times
9/11/2015 8:10:52 PM (last edit: 9/11/2015 8:10:52 PM)
show user profile  Bolteon
Hardly an exclusive issue; but to me this is indicative of peoples mentalities.

First job I ever did for money? $50 an hour at the age of 18.

Made $8k in a month.

I have always been hungry, but that's not an excuse in being stupid.

-Marko Mandaric

read 627 times
9/11/2015 8:41:15 PM (last edit: 9/11/2015 8:41:15 PM)
show user profile  Octopuzzy
As you know, where you live makes a huge difference in what you see as a decent income.
If you live in California or something what a 3k rent, sure it's not a lot.

read 622 times
9/11/2015 9:14:33 PM (last edit: 9/11/2015 9:14:33 PM)
show user profile  herfst1
And that's exactly the problem octo. There's no universal standard that we can use as a benchmark because some people who live in mud houses do 3D.

[edit] for me, I was surprised that I was charging half what people in LA charged because my rates were already 4 times my standard salary (per hour) so I was thinking I was getting a good deal. There is no universal site, no global union, no benchmark for everyone worldwide to adhere to. And now it's too late to change that (unless the global economy collapses and we stop exporting labour), because those people in mud houses will starve if they don't accept the $2 per hour jobs they're used to taking to feed their families for a year and would never accept going on strike or any drastic measure like that.
read 612 times
9/11/2015 10:08:55 PM (last edit: 9/11/2015 10:13:56 PM)
show user profile  Bolteon
Still not an excuse.

For one thing, 99% of rent in California is very reasonable. You don't need to live by the beach to do 3D.

Secondly, there's a lot more work out there that has nothing to do with 3D if you're at a point where it's food vs work.

No major measures needed, just refuse the work that doesn't pay what it's worth.

Simple as that.

-Marko Mandaric

read 597 times
9/11/2015 10:57:01 PM (last edit: 9/11/2015 10:57:01 PM)
show user profile  gogodr
at least you guys don't have to compete with Indian programmers....
If you think that is going dirt cheap.. I once had the bad experience of almost closing a deal for a full on custom web platform estimated for around 5k$ (It wasn't like super big, but it was a couple months worth of work).
long story short, the client got an offer from an indian programming house to do it for 1k$.
In the end, they did a crappy job and closed down.

Hello there

beautiful ;3

read 595 times
9/11/2015 10:58:22 PM (last edit: 9/11/2015 10:58:22 PM)
show user profile  chillywilson
These types of job to budget areas is were the sales come into play.

I would tell them the quality I would do for that price, putting it somewhere around 90's flight simulator and then have a break down of the 5k and how spending more would be within their best interest.

You'd be surprised at how many companies will take the fast preview or spend more for the shabang.

Never think about it if they say "Oh well this guy can do it" , if they ever say that, then tell them to just go to that guy.

You tell them that your an artist and you have costs for your work
read 585 times
9/11/2015 11:25:28 PM (last edit: 9/11/2015 11:26:26 PM)
show user profile  Bolteon
"In the end, they did a crappy job and closed down."

You always get what you pay for.

Including a shut down business...

-Marko Mandaric

read 578 times
9/11/2015 11:36:09 PM (last edit: 9/11/2015 11:36:09 PM)
show user profile  FX
I think this a case of closing the stable door after the horse has bolted.

I could post worse examples than that...I see them nearly every day, but I don't dwell on them, just move on and let some other sucker take the bait.

read 557 times
9/12/2015 1:50:21 AM (last edit: 9/12/2015 1:50:21 AM)
show user profile  Bolteon
Post them up!

Education is key, and like 25% the battle.

-Marko Mandaric

read 550 times
9/12/2015 3:53:50 AM (last edit: 9/12/2015 3:53:50 AM)
show user profile  chillywilson
Here was my favorite; I didn't save the emails but I'll give you the gist.

There was a studio in PA that was making a show rhymes with "Forensic Whiles", they were hiring and I had just finished up doing freelance for a cartoon and needed to get more work.

Being fresh and not all that new to the industry I was excited to see a local studio that had a national show wanted to interview me, which was rare because now I didn't have to commute 45 min to either near by city.

After 2 phone and email tests and interviews they offered me a job for 3d effects and modeling using the shit program lightwave. I was excited for a bit, then the big big boss came on the phone and explained to me that the position only paid $12 an hour, oh but what a resume builder this will be they said.

I declined the job only to get a call months later asking if I was still interested in which my reply was great.

"Even if I wanted to work for your corny reenactment show and I wasn't making real money I still would decline this position because I'm sure you and your big boss is completely full of shit and the hassle of working for you still won't make up the fact that a job at the local hardware store pays more and is less hassle, good day."

That was one of the better ones.

Maybe later I'll tell you about the guy that started up a interactive company and empty the building with mine and others laptops when he couldn't make rent and was never to be seen again.
read 547 times
9/12/2015 4:13:18 AM (last edit: 9/12/2015 4:15:59 AM)
show user profile  gogodr
Oh I have a good one.
There was this Start Up called E-vents. they hired me and my team to build up the whole system for their company. (it involves social network integration, events management, lists managements, etc)
so it is their front office and back office platforms. I went cheap because one of my friends was one of the associates of the company.
He understood that I was making them the favor and going cheap on them already, but his associates didn't and they always asked for the work to be done faster and if possible cheaper, even though we had a contract.
2 months into the project, they delayed one of the meetings, because they were busy meeting with other partners for their business. (which is fair) But then called me to a meeting where they told me that they felt that I was slacking and too expensive because we were behind the schedule (which I will admit was kind of my team´s fault too).
So they pulled the card of "Either you go cheaper on us, or we find another person(not even a team) to do it for us. We know a guy"
I tried my best to explain them their situation and how it is not only more expensive to stop development mid ways and integrate someone else in the project, but how they just wouldn't be able to find someone who could do the job for cheaper.
They insisted, so I stood my ground and didn't agree to do it, so we stopped the development.
The story doesn't end there, I was still in contact with my friend as he told me how it was a complete mess and even after what they did to my team, I still wanted their StartUp to work.
After a month, which was a date later than the planned completion of the project, they contacted me to hire my team again and apologized because the guy they hired was just not capable of working in the platform and only made a mess. Then I proceeded to do the natural and charged them double to finish the project, which they agreed.

oh, and they are not doing poorly right now, they secured a deal with one of the biggest clubs here in Lima,Peru. (their platform is a list management system for club events.). But their website right now sucks as you can clearly tell how it was done by professionals first and then someone started breaking it bit by bit adding stuff.

Hello there

beautiful ;3

read 532 times
9/12/2015 8:27:10 AM (last edit: 9/12/2015 8:34:39 AM)
show user profile  joelr
Gogo whats the website? There are a shit load of things related to e-vents

read 497 times
9/12/2015 1:28:09 PM (last edit: 9/12/2015 1:28:09 PM)
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