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Dominance War Entry
show user profile  jonnybravo_87

I shall post the latest progress here from now on

2 ideeas.....i'll try to come up with a few more but......since the actual modeling process is a bit more timeconsuming than skething some ideeas up on a sheet of paper (wich i'm unable to do) i don't think you'll se much more concepts from me. I'm preety happy with the hellhound i got here, i'll see what and if i can come up with something better

White Death

read 1469 times
3/17/2009 2:47:36 AM (last edit: 4/24/2009 4:41:01 AM)
show user profile  Setherial
cool, looking forward to seeing the next step
read 1459 times
3/17/2009 3:00:11 AM (last edit: 3/17/2009 3:00:11 AM)
show user profile  K-tonne
if you find you're getting bananna type legs just put another ball either side of the joint (knee especially and probably ankle and elbows)
also the hip area will most likely be difficult to sculpt as it is- you might find putting in more of a hip structure would help with the 'topology' at this point- i say 'topology' that way because you're not going to get perfect top out of this method as i'm sure you know already
i suggest putting a ball each side, high on the hip, and to the side of the main groin ball
0-0-0 like that- the center one being the torso/ hip one you have
it's cos the zspheres turn into boxes with 6 faces and you're trying to get 8 sides out of one face the way you're currently using them- just makes a bit of a mess
the above way makes a zsphere chain off each face
bit garbled- i'm all tired and that lol
hands can be made with this method well enough but the top is garbage and you're better off either doing it in max (or whatever you're going to use) or importing a hand with good top and masking the join with a wristband/ bit of clothing/ you get the idea
good luck

Website and Portfolio

read 1440 times
3/17/2009 3:50:19 AM (last edit: 3/17/2009 3:59:15 AM)
show user profile  jonnybravo_87
Seth - thanks;)
K-tonne - thanks for the advices m8. I'm not going to use zspheres for the base mesh though, i'm not that good with them....i still prefer max for this part. I used them in this case just cause it's a fast way to set up some concepts, since i'm not good enough with a pencil to lay out my ideas in 2d. I'll keep your advices in mind though, they should come in handy when doodling in zbrush. Cheers.

Made up my mind....i'm going to continue with the hound. I really don't have any more ideas for another creature, maybe that's because i really dig the whole hellhound idea.
Some progress


up to 3.200 tris. I tried to keep a good flow in the model....only quads so far. I'm gonna add some loops when i'm satisfied with the general shape to get the polis more squareish. This time i'll try to sculpt as much as possible in max with the available polis before bringing it to zbrush just to practice a bit. I'm used to jump right in to zbrush and i'm afraid i lost my practice with max.

edit: 3200 tris with no simetry so 6400 total White Death

read 1349 times
3/19/2009 7:36:18 AM (last edit: 3/23/2009 12:53:46 PM)
show user profile  jbrophy
Looks like a good start. I am not sure why you have so many polies in your base though? Just connect some cubes and get your sculpt on!!

Jesse Brophy

Fry Monkey

read 1300 times
3/19/2009 11:54:13 AM (last edit: 3/19/2009 11:54:13 AM)
show user profile  jonnybravo_87
well um....i must admit i never made a model for a game and i'm a bit confused....since i'm allowed to have up to 10.000 tris ain't i supposed to flesh out as many details of the final model on the base cage (horns, clows etc) so that i can:

-have a nice unwrap with many polis for each part of the model. I'm thinking at the fallowing sittuation: i have few polis and lets say i add 3 horns on a region of the body wich on the base mesh is represented only by a single poligon wich in turn is unwrapped along with the other polis. If a later paint the horns wouldn't they represented on the difuse map only on one poligon?. Wouldn't it be better if i model the horns and all that on the base mesh so that i can unwrap the accordingly?

-add more polis in the regions that i think i'll fill up with fine details so that when i divide in zbrush i get more details in that area

-have a nice distribution of polis that matches the anatomy of the model

-also wouldn't a rougher base mesh look bad even with the normal map on it. I mean a "roundish" base mesh helps right?

I'm very confused about these issues and the things i just enumerated above are strictly just of the top of my head. I'm sure i may very well be wrong, any pointers?
thank you for your help White Death

read 1286 times
3/19/2009 1:47:32 PM (last edit: 3/19/2009 1:54:15 PM)
show user profile  jbrophy
Create base for sculpting - This can be a very simple model. The beauty of it all is if you need horns add them as subtools. If you need more stuff just make it. All you are using this for is normal and ambient occlusion generation so push pull tug or tow your way to the final model.
Create game res model
Unwrap Game res
Rip normals and ambient occlusion from High to low :)

Jesse Brophy

Fry Monkey

read 1249 times
3/19/2009 5:52:40 PM (last edit: 3/19/2009 5:52:40 PM)
show user profile  jonnybravo_87 you're saying that the mesh that leaves max isn't necessarily the final base mesh....since i can divide what i get from max in zbrush as many times as necessary as long as the number of tris is <10000 and then use that level as the base mesh, and the upper levels of detail as the source of the normal map.

Makes much more sence, i just wish i asked this before i got's clear that i have a lot of things to learn. Such as ripping the ambient occlusion from the high res(i'll have to google that one) and also the use of subtools in zbrush. In this case i'll try and shorten the modeling process in max as much as possible, even if now i'm a bit too far (the first divide in zbrush will bring the tri count over 10.000). Thank you for your help jesse, much much apreciated.

White Death

read 1220 times
3/20/2009 3:35:14 AM (last edit: 3/20/2009 3:35:14 AM)
show user profile  Dave
I work backwards for fear of not being able to bring the high res into max. Drawback of this is it means I spend waaaay too long on my low mesh, ensuring that I know exactly what i'll be doing when it hits the sculpting stage. I use mudbox too, so I 'personally' find it easier to do:

Low mesh - Max
Unwrap - Max/Headus UVLayout
Sculpt - Mudbox
Bake - Mudbox
Finish! - Photoshop

I might try to sculpt first one of these days, and do the baking in Max instead. See if i like it that way round.

"I flew over Egypt once"

read 1216 times
3/20/2009 3:46:18 AM (last edit: 3/20/2009 3:46:18 AM)
show user profile  jonnybravo_87
i'm not sure how mudbox works but with zbrush you could still do the baking outside of max.....i mean you sculpt the model up to a reasonable amount of detail, you go back to a lower level, the closest to 10.000 in this case, export that, unwrap it, import it back to zbrush over the previously exported level, and the unwrapping on this lower level will pass on to the highest levels. So after that you bake the highest level details on to the level you unwrapped. I'm not sure if this is what you meant though. Anyway, the mothod you described is pretty much what i'm going to use since i'm already too far in to the character build but i'll definatelly try and implement jesse's technique the next time since it surely is less timeconsuming. I'd try and implement it now but, i'll try and keep safe, i'm too afraid i'd mess up something since i'd be using subtools for the first time. White Death

read 1208 times
3/20/2009 4:05:50 AM (last edit: 3/20/2009 4:16:06 AM)
show user profile  K-tonne
3dioot's subtool tutorial:,DE,GB,US&searchId=602648763490171674&rank=0#watch%3Dv880521zeMJNA9X

Website and Portfolio

read 1192 times
3/20/2009 4:25:56 AM (last edit: 3/20/2009 4:25:56 AM)
show user profile  jonnybravo_87
"Veoh is no longer available in ROMANIA. If you are not in ROMANIA or think you have received this message in error, please go to and report the issue."
discrimination i tell ya White Death

read 1189 times
3/20/2009 4:32:30 AM (last edit: 3/20/2009 4:32:30 AM)
show user profile  jbrophy
You lost me at <10000

The model you make in Zbrush can be infinite. You just need the final game model to be <10000. So get what you need in Zbrush. All you care about is how it looks. Then you concern yourself with the low model later. All you care about now is getting the look you want. Don't even think about the base mesh unless you are going to do something crazy like 100 spikes or something.

As far as using subtools the first time just practice quick with some blocks. Get it down and then use it. Well worth the time to learn now. It will help immensely. I am always around if you have any issues.

Jesse Brophy

Fry Monkey

read 1160 times
3/20/2009 10:21:18 AM (last edit: 3/20/2009 10:22:59 AM)
show user profile  K-tonne
subtool info:

Website and Portfolio

read 1143 times
3/20/2009 11:04:14 AM (last edit: 3/20/2009 11:04:14 AM)
show user profile  jonnybravo_87
"I am always around if you have any issues". Word cannot express my gratitude m8:). Having this in mind, i'll try and use the method you described.

I already started taking off unnecessary geometry (i just removed 3600 tris) and i'm just about to take the model to zbrush. I only have one small question before i continue. I plan on making this character show off bones and torn skin and muscle tissue all over it's body. The head will be mostly skeletal so i added a detail in max since i don't think i'll be able to add it in zbrush later (i don't know if zbrush has a bridge function). My question is this, i have limited experience in creating normal maps but i know how they work....wouldn't this region be a likely source of artifacts due to it's construction?


K-tonne thanks again for your help m8. I started messing arround with subtools and they seem pretty straightforward and easy to use

edit:i promice i'll stop asking questions and actually start making some progress soon enough. I'm just worried not to make a mistake now that i wouldn't be able to repair happened to me before and it can be really really frustrating White Death

read 1123 times
3/20/2009 1:15:54 PM (last edit: 3/23/2009 12:54:27 PM)
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