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Brainstormsession for liquidlovers
show user profile  killerbee2
K guys, all of you who are interested in liquids gather thyself.
I'm currently busy on exploring liquids with native max tools, no glu, no realflow.

maybe this thread could be an interesting brainstorm on how to make it happen for real.
I got some ideas on how liquids work. I know the pros and cons of realflow and glu in meantime but there's one thing they both lack and which max's native blobmesh does have and that's the ability to scale the source particle.
Both glu and realflow take into acount that a particle has a fix size and a specific tension and relax.
On the other hand what's a negative thing about using pflow and blobmesh is that you can't simulate things, so you have to fake everything. (so no filling objects either)

This is a setup I'm experimenting with and so far gives quite good results, I'll post a first render in a few moments.

A pflow emitter emitting particles, they bounce on a deflector, once bounced they spawn x2 with scale /2. This happens on every bounce. So basicily everytime it bounces, it splits in 2 and scaling down by two. So this results in a nice thick stream with every spawn making the mesh more fine.
Afterwards added a relax modifier to smooth things a bit out.

read 2015 times
5/20/2006 10:05:05 AM (last edit: 5/20/2006 10:05:05 AM)
show user profile  vishesh
very much looking forward to it.

Pflow is very powerful tool. i am quite impressed with its features.

"Passion is the flame that burns forever."
read 2004 times
5/20/2006 10:35:08 AM (last edit: 5/20/2006 10:35:08 AM)
show user profile  Nik Clark
Pflow is awesome. I'll be following your progress, KB.

read 1996 times
5/20/2006 10:51:37 AM (last edit: 5/20/2006 10:51:37 AM)
show user profile  killerbee2
eeur, guys, I intended this to be a discussion to also talk about it, not a 1 way direction :)

So start talking.

I'm gonna render a test overnight, gotta go out eat something with the misses in meantime...

Hear from you soon.

read 1982 times
5/20/2006 11:27:57 AM (last edit: 5/20/2006 11:27:57 AM)
show user profile  modena_Art_3

..yeah Pflow is powerfully awesome, cant wait to see what you do with it KB.
read 1978 times
5/20/2006 11:29:24 AM (last edit: 5/20/2006 11:29:24 AM)
show user profile  inxa
I want to know how they have done the Liquids in Perfect Storm, I wonder whether that can be
achived with Max's particles and using scripts.

I have also seen some basic work from Traingle Mini Series, I think good particles usee over there too and that too with Simple Max particles. Not really into Particles but will be glad if I get to learn a lot :-).

live in this thread from now Kb :)

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read 1969 times
5/20/2006 11:36:07 AM (last edit: 5/20/2006 11:37:18 AM)
show user profile  Nik Clark
So start talking.

:o) I'm sure we will have much more to say when we see the render!!

Using Pflow for liquids is pretty easy to get going with. At work we use it to make oil gloop down the sides of engine components.

Getting fluids to run is do-able. Getting liquids to pool, splash and pour, as it were, is much harder (an ice cube dropping into a glass of water for example). This is where something like RF or glu is needed. Do you intend on trying to get liquids to pool, etc, or is this just for flowing liquid?

With the setup you describe above, you could do a speed test on the particles at the point of collision, and if the speed of a particle is below a threshold as it strikes, it would follow the surface of the object rather than just bounce every time. That might add a little more realism when the liquids are moving more slowly, and with more viscous liquids. Just a thought.

read 1956 times
5/20/2006 11:44:22 AM (last edit: 5/20/2006 11:45:34 AM)
show user profile  killerbee2
So is everyone along with the problem of other particle systems ?

here's something to think about :

Realflow & Glu :
- running water down a faucet, let's say you start with 50.000 particles, this will give a nice small particle size in the end when colliding with the floor but in the beginning you'll see the little blobs which isn't good.
A runaround for this if you would be able to cluster f.e. the 50.000 particles into 1.000 particles and when collision happens an intelligent systems breaks up that cluster into f.e. 5.000 particles and so on on every collision. (for realflow & Glu noobs, this systems don't allow spawning)

Max & Blobmesh :
Blobmesh takes into account scaling and size delivered by Pflow and it's possible to spawn.
Big flaw here is the computation of the mesh which is terrible slow.

read 1954 times
5/20/2006 11:45:00 AM (last edit: 5/20/2006 11:45:00 AM)
show user profile  modena_Art_3

i think BlobMesh sounds funny,...all blobby ..hee hee

ok, ball back in your court KB.

*edit: cant wait to see what you can make.

read 1947 times
5/20/2006 11:50:15 AM (last edit: 5/20/2006 11:52:52 AM)
show user profile  killerbee2
Nik, what i'm trying is more like splashes and interaction with other objects.

Pouring is not possible since you can't stack particles as far as my knowledge.

read 1931 times
5/20/2006 12:03:48 PM (last edit: 5/20/2006 12:03:48 PM)
show user profile  HANZZ
Can't stack max particles? Sure you can. Take a few minutes to think about it, and it will become obvious how.

 photo MorgothArisenSig_zpsup4yjp7o.jpg

read 1918 times
5/20/2006 12:11:36 PM (last edit: 5/20/2006 12:11:36 PM)
show user profile  Manolo
cool coincidence. I'm making the ice cubes poured into a glass of whiskey in my spare time -wich is quite scarce now-. I've just started with this, also the goal is to achieve a decent result withouth plugins. I'm home now, but tomorrow I'll start playing and feedbacking. See you in this thread.


read 1892 times
5/20/2006 1:41:41 PM (last edit: 5/20/2006 1:41:41 PM)
show user profile  inxa
am keeeem now to see how it all happens

Pretty dumb with Particles

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read 1873 times
5/20/2006 2:16:38 PM (last edit: 5/20/2006 2:16:38 PM)
show user profile  timpa
Started playing with this the other day!

Stand by for some renders when I get a few ideas working.

Im working with liquid pouring into a tank.
viewed from the side.

read 1832 times
5/21/2006 12:14:21 AM (last edit: 5/21/2006 12:14:21 AM)
show user profile  killerbee2
oh my freaking head, too much liquids yesterday...
I'll get back on this later...

read 1796 times
5/21/2006 8:53:32 AM (last edit: 5/21/2006 8:53:32 AM)
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