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Bone envelopes not working?
show user profile  Glitcher
We learned how to edit bone envelopes this week, so I thought I'd try and add some to the eyelids of the Krystal model below to animate blinking. I created an extension of three bones from the top of the head and protruding through the right eyelid. I've highlighed the bones in orange:

After adding first two bones (not the final bone, which I know is the controller) to the Skin modifier, I selected the mesh, highlighted Edit Enveloppes and clicked on the bone sticking out through the eyelid. Except for some reason, I'm not seeing any weight colours on the mesh at all. I tried enlarging the envelope, and using the Paint Weights function, but I still get squat.

If I click on the upper jawbone, the weight colours appear as normal.

What I find strange about the other bones is that the envelopes are GINORMOUS; we're talking 100 times larger than the whole mesh. Can anyone tell me why these huge enveloppes only affect a precise area around the bone, or why my envelope doesn't affect anything at all?
read 626 times
4/27/2008 5:40:45 PM (last edit: 4/27/2008 5:40:45 PM)
show user profile  $$T-bone$$
your model is probly very, very small in scale. Sometimes i get itty-bitty envelopes cuz my model is so large.
quick-fix, right-click the "radius" spinner and it will reduce the envelope to zero. then you can start eazing it bak up some til you get what you want. (or scale the model up quite a bit and then start over)
the reason you aren't getting any painted weights for that eye bone is probly cuz all the other bones around it have taken over. manually type in the influence you desire but you'll probly have to go through all the other bones and reduce their envelope weights first.
you might also want to try using just one or two floating bones around the eye instead of a linked arm thingy like you have...there's no reason for all the extra bones, and they don't have to form a chain. (those extra tiny bones like, the end of the nose, the end of the jaw and the top of the head...they can be deleted)

read 609 times
4/27/2008 7:17:30 PM (last edit: 4/27/2008 7:20:15 PM)
show user profile  Glitcher
My model is neither incredibly small nor incredibly large, but the envelopes are gigantic anyway. I tried reducing the size of the upper jawbone envelope to observe its effect, but for some reason the weight colour doesn't change in the slightest, even if the envelope is smaller than the mesh. Is there some other force at work besides envelopes that affect weights?

read 595 times
4/27/2008 8:35:43 PM (last edit: 4/27/2008 8:35:43 PM)
show user profile  $$T-bone$$
there is obviously influences coming in from other bones. check every bones envelope, one or more bones have dominated the area.

read 588 times
4/27/2008 8:56:44 PM (last edit: 4/27/2008 8:56:44 PM)
show user profile  Dejitarujin
"Is there some other force at work besides envelopes that affect weights?"

Yes, a few things affect the weights. Most notable is the envelopes of bones other than the one you're working on, and the tendency for vertex weights to want to always add up to 1. I myself never use envelopes at all, because I can't get them to work right.
Specialty: Non-organic modelling and effects.
Setup: 3D Studio 2010 with finalRender.
Rig: No, no I can't.
read 587 times
4/27/2008 8:58:18 PM (last edit: 4/27/2008 8:58:18 PM)
show user profile  Glitcher
I don't understand. I only have one bone selected, so why would other bone envelopes have any affect on the displayed weight? Color All Weights is not activated. Furthermore, I tried changing the orientation of the envelope, but the weight colours still didn't change. Same result for all the others - it's like the envelopes don't even exist. What the hell's going on?
read 577 times
4/27/2008 10:12:43 PM (last edit: 4/27/2008 10:12:43 PM)
show user profile  mattymoose

The first thing you need to know is that every vertex on the model has a value between 0 and 1 that describes every bones influence, or weight, on that vertex. A vertex that is skinned 100% to the neck bone has a weight of 1 for that bone, and a weight of 0 for every other bone. Verts can be skinned to multiple bones, but the weight of each vert must always add up 1. For example a vert skinned to two bones would have weights of .5 and .5 for each, and 0 for every other bone. This is why other bone envelopes have an effect on the selected weight - because each vert contains a value for every bone that you've included in your skin, the sum of which must be exactly 1.

The model you downloaded (I'm assuming) already has every vertex weighted 100%. When you add new bones, they can't add any weight to the verts nearby, because those verts are already weighted to existing bones.

How envelopes relate to vertex weighting is that verts within the inner (orange) envelope are always weighted 100% to the selected bone, and verts in the outer (red) envelope are able to be blended with other bones. So one way to fix your "problem" would be to scale the inner envelopes in areas you want to add new bones to zero, to ensure that weights in that area are able to be blended with the new bone weights.

read 566 times
4/27/2008 11:06:54 PM (last edit: 4/27/2008 11:14:32 PM)
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