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Advice wanted on quoting for a 3D TV ad...
show user profile  pkit
Hi.

Sorry I haven't posted in a while, but I've been busy with work and such.

I'm currently quoting for a project where the client wants a 50 second 3D ad for TV that sells their children's bath products. It'll have 3D/2D elements, with animated characters and particle effects etc. Can someone offer me advice on how much I should be quoting them for a job of this type?

Many thanks, and look forward to the response!


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read 638 times
2/12/2009 6:34:37 AM (last edit: 2/12/2009 6:34:37 AM)
show user profile  killerbee2
are you quoting directly to the customer or through and agency or productionhouse ?
Is there a premade storyboard ?
How much time do you have to make it ?
What quality do they expect ?
etc.



read 603 times
2/12/2009 8:59:13 AM (last edit: 2/12/2009 9:00:05 AM)
show user profile  advance-software
How long is a piece of string ?

Quote per hour if there isn't a tight spec.

That way, it's done when it's done, or when they've spent their budget.
read 599 times
2/12/2009 9:01:43 AM (last edit: 2/12/2009 9:02:24 AM)
show user profile  killerbee2
"or when they've spent their budget. "

LOL, that's a funny one. Surely gonna try that next time i see a client's budget runs out just before hitting render and then try to claim my money...




read 595 times
2/12/2009 9:04:22 AM (last edit: 2/12/2009 9:04:22 AM)
show user profile  advance-software
You give them regular updates and they choose to continue to evolve the work forwards, or call it a day, either because the work is done to their satisfaction, or they don't have funding to take it further. You of course reach the end of each evolutionary cycle before submitting an update to the client.

You actually raise an interesting point - do you charge the same hourly rate for creative work as you do for when your render farm is sat there processing frames and you're cooking up one of your famous cod and apple delights ?

read 584 times
2/12/2009 9:18:22 AM (last edit: 2/12/2009 9:22:35 AM)
show user profile  pkit
hi, thanks for the replys. I will be quoting directly to the customer and have 5 weeks to produce the animation from scratch, so no storyboards.

We have a total of 2 of our staff on this totally dedicated for the 5 weeks.

As for quality, as far as we can push it really. We are strongly considering the cartoon like "bubble" characters as I call them, cute little chars, easily rigged & animated

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read 567 times
2/12/2009 9:32:16 AM (last edit: 2/12/2009 9:32:16 AM)
show user profile  killerbee2
advance, you clearly never worked for the creative business




read 539 times
2/12/2009 10:56:58 AM (last edit: 2/12/2009 10:56:58 AM)
show user profile  advance-software
I've worked for plenty of creative businesses (games companies).

This is the first time I've tried running one.

What's wrong with my suggestion ?
read 537 times
2/12/2009 10:59:41 AM (last edit: 2/12/2009 10:59:41 AM)
show user profile  killerbee2
the last thing a client needs with a deadline project is some guy nagging about money.
So make clear statements upfront so you don't have to go down that road.
First thing is make your deadline, otherwise you wont get any money at all.
You can discuss it afterwards sure, but not just before a deadline unless you don't care about loosing the client.




read 528 times
2/12/2009 11:04:15 AM (last edit: 2/12/2009 11:04:15 AM)
show user profile  advance-software
I guess it depends on how involved in the process the client wants to be.

If they want to give you a budget & deadline, and you do all the work from concept through to final render, that's one way, perhaps the most common scenario.

The problem is, they might not like your solution.

If they don't see the work until you're done, it's too late.

Interactive works require interaction to enable the client to experience the work being created to see if it 'feels right'. This requires giving them updated versions to evaluate.

You can't go on forever tweeking and changing on a fixed budget, so there has to be a cut off point, or an extension somewhere.

Not everything has a single deadline - some projects extend indefinately, or over a period - updating / maintaining a website, for example.
read 522 times
2/12/2009 11:11:09 AM (last edit: 2/12/2009 11:25:40 AM)
show user profile  Bolteon
kb's right...


draw the line quick and cut it dry, bid out the whole work for yourself time wise; multiply that by 1.5 and tell them that's your feasable delivery date.


for a proper production house to do a spot of this size, you'd be looking at 600-750k usd; and around 6-8 weeks of work. this is for the LA basin area.

as for yourself, take the hours you put together (post 1.5 multiply) and run your freelance rate over them; if the number seems fair to you, bid it. if not, raise it up a bit till it makes sense.

one more thing, you ask for 50% up front; if your client isn't willing to deal that out on a spot this sized, you shouldn't be working with them.



----



I guess it depends on how involved in the process the client wants to be.

If they want to give you a budget & deadline, and you do all the work from concept through to final render, that's one way, perhaps the most common scenario.

The problem is, they might not like your solution.

If they don't see the work until you're done, it's too late.

Interactive works require interaction to enable the client to experience the work being created to see if it 'feels right'. This requires giving them updated versions to evalutate.

You can't go on forever tweeking and changing on a fixed budget, so there has to be a cut off point, or an extension somewhere.



the most common scenario is to have an agency be your buffer between the client and yourself. initial storyboarding is done by the agency and trust is put in them by the client to deliver something akin to those boards once production has begun on the spot.

clients usually see some work, post the previs stage when things start actually looking decent; it's the agencies part to make sure things progress along a pre established line from the get go though.

and true, at one point a shot in the spot has to be called out CBB (could be better) and moved on from but that tends to vary from production house to production house how quickly you can bring a shot to that point.

that's the bitch thing about freelance, you tend to work directly with a client which can get to be hell cause most agencies have a hard time getting their heads around this whole 3d aspect and what it means to change something like a camera 4 weeks into production; how come a client which only sees you as an x amount of money spent in a y amount of time.

-Marko Mandaric



read 515 times
2/12/2009 11:21:23 AM (last edit: 2/12/2009 11:25:38 AM)
show user profile  Dr. Jim
2nd'd.

They dont get 'the process'.....and will want what they want, when they want, and wont really know what "it" is until they see it.

Keep us posted on how this goes for you aye?....
read 486 times
2/12/2009 1:07:09 PM (last edit: 2/12/2009 1:07:09 PM)
show user profile  killerbee2
I remember a client going panic on me when he saw my screen rendering a specular pass while remarking subtly the render looked strange and hoping that wasnt the final look.




read 475 times
2/12/2009 1:23:05 PM (last edit: 2/12/2009 1:23:05 PM)
show user profile  Dub.
To be honest, if you're asking this, you probably shouldn't be doing the job.


read 453 times
2/13/2009 2:53:42 AM (last edit: 2/13/2009 2:53:42 AM)
show user profile  Chris123643
"To be honest, if you're asking this, you probably shouldn't be doing the job"

Its a reasonable question to be asking, inexperience in quoting for a job shouldn’t mean you avoid it. You start at the beginning and gain experience as you go along... you have to start somewhere.


read 449 times
2/13/2009 3:03:36 AM (last edit: 2/13/2009 3:03:36 AM)
 
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