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Adding Details
show user profile  Handelo
Hey guys! I might still continue bugging you as I progress in my project (but only about questions I couldn't already find answers for!)

Here's the thing - I have a relatively low-poly piece of clothing I want to smooth out. Using Meshsmooth or Turbosmooth won't do because I'd have to start sorting all the sharp edges into separate smoothing groups, and that's a pain, plus I need it to look better in cloth simulations.

Therefore I need to add polys. Problem is, what's the right way to do that?

I've already added the polys I needed, but now the smoothing looks off. Is there a way to add polys AND position them according to the model curve? I know later versions of max have that option in the Graphite modeling tool, but I only have max 2009 which doesn't.
I could, of course, do this manually, but with so many polys that would take ages.

Here's a couple of pics to show you what I mean:

Before the added polys:



After adding the polys:

read 1095 times
2/4/2011 12:26:04 PM (last edit: 2/4/2011 12:26:04 PM)
show user profile  Mr_Stabby
post a wire of the original, right now theres no way to tell whats up

read 1077 times
2/4/2011 2:21:04 PM (last edit: 2/4/2011 2:21:04 PM)
show user profile  Handelo
Here you go



Yea, I know, triangles...
read 1070 times
2/4/2011 3:58:14 PM (last edit: 2/4/2011 3:58:37 PM)
show user profile  Mr_Stabby
yes.. triangles

triangles are the doom of any kind of smoothing so i think the easiest way to raise the poly density is to just suck it up and backspace all the diagonal edges after converting to epoly. In some cases it might not be obvious which edges are the diagonal ones but by following edge loops and saving the uncertain areas for last should help you figure it out. Its a lot of dull work i know but shouldnt take more then 15 mins really.

read 1061 times
2/4/2011 4:46:52 PM (last edit: 2/4/2011 4:46:52 PM)
show user profile  Handelo
I don't mind doing that, but that still wouldn't solve the problem. The issue with the smoothing is that once I add the extra polys, the new edges are still on the same plane of each poly. Thus, when I apply meshsmooth, it regards the middle polys as straighter areas.

How can I move the new edges along with the existing curve of the model? I mean, for instance, when I add a new edge, I move it upward to create a curve, instead of leaving it on the same plane as the other edges. Is there a way to do this in max 2009?
read 1043 times
2/4/2011 8:28:19 PM (last edit: 2/4/2011 8:28:19 PM)
show user profile  LionDebt
Not fully understanding what your problem is here.

But basically, triangles cannot be mesh-smoothed/turbo-smoothed/sub-divided effectively. First thing I learnt when picking up 3D Studio Max was to work with 100% quads. Converting an object into an Editable Mesh will reproduce it in triangular form - which is required for most game engines? I believe?

Anyway, that's my understanding of it - hopefully someone could correct me too if I'm wrong!
read 1035 times
2/4/2011 8:40:01 PM (last edit: 2/4/2011 8:40:01 PM)
show user profile  Mr_Stabby
>>new edges are still on the same plane of each poly

thats not how nurbs smooth works, for the plane in question 1 plane in each direction get considered forming a curve and the new vert gets put on that curve

read 1022 times
2/5/2011 1:43:43 AM (last edit: 2/5/2011 1:43:43 AM)
show user profile  Dave
LionDebt... your strange ways of thinking have already been seen to in another thread:

http://maxforums.org/threads/efficient_method_modeling/0001.aspx

As for your converting to edit mesh to get things working in game, train of thought... whaaaa? I'm afraid your understanding is somewhat smaller than you believe.

"I flew over Egypt once"

read 1006 times
2/5/2011 4:00:18 AM (last edit: 2/5/2011 4:00:18 AM)
show user profile  Handelo
Stabby, I understand (more or less) how NURBS smoothing works, but it JUST creates the curve, without actually adding the edges/polys, therefore is useless when it comes to motion simulations like cloth...
read 986 times
2/5/2011 10:08:16 AM (last edit: 2/5/2011 10:08:16 AM)
show user profile  mrgrotey
Use this to get rid of your triangles, i usse it, its great. object must be editable poly
http://www.scriptspot.com/3ds-max/scripts/detriangulator






read 980 times
2/5/2011 11:19:58 AM (last edit: 2/5/2011 11:19:58 AM)
show user profile  Handelo
Thanks for that script, mrgrotey, it works like a charm! It doesn't get rid of all the triangles but it does enough for me to be able fix the rest manually afterward.
I'm still waiting on an answer to my original question though...
read 971 times
2/5/2011 1:02:09 PM (last edit: 2/5/2011 1:02:09 PM)
show user profile  Mr_Stabby
>>Stabby, I understand (more or less) how NURBS smoothing works, but it JUST creates the curve, without actually adding the edges/polys, therefore is useless when it comes to motion simulations like cloth...

i dont think you do, nurms is the default subdivision method of turbo/mesh smooth

this is a curve that gets made (sorta)

each iteration of smooth slices each poly into exactly the number of quads that the poly in question had before in edges thus increasing the amount of polys by atleast 3 times and finally all the new verts get put on that curve

read 967 times
2/5/2011 1:15:36 PM (last edit: 2/5/2011 1:15:36 PM)
show user profile  LionDebt
@Dave - thanks, didn't check up on that thread in a while! :) I'm learning step by step.
read 960 times
2/5/2011 1:23:13 PM (last edit: 2/5/2011 1:23:13 PM)
show user profile  Handelo
Okay, I admit my stupidity on this one. Meshsmooth doesn't show the extra polygons but still creates them, so I though it wouldn't work with the cloth sim.

... This still means I have to start sorting the sharper edges into smoothing groups huh? I guess there's no easy way for this one. Ah well.

Thanks for the help guys!
read 955 times
2/5/2011 2:00:10 PM (last edit: 2/5/2011 2:00:10 PM)
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